Ottawa Fiero Club Forum

Does anyone think that the purported benefits of replacing standard axle seals with support bearings is worth it in the mid term?

Kitten's car is having bladder control problems.  The choice is to either spend $20 on a pair of OEM-type seals, or spend ~$120 on a pair of seal & bearing assemblies which will likely not see anything close to another 50,000km before getting replaced with something... different.

The total bill is not the problem, so please don't answer with "seals" just because of the cost difference.  I'm more interested in the ultimate value, and doing it right the first time.

I'm on the fence--please feel free to shove me in one direction or the other.   ;D

Actually Don, you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but..........
I'm not sure what you mean???
Are you talking rears I guess?  And there is a bearing, and a seal (separate part), but I don't know how one could do the job of the other, really.....??? again.....
I am just too fuzzy on your question here. 

I was seriously concidering getting those bearing seals but haven't yet.  If you are going to decide to use a symilar transmission with your replacement you refer to and if you can use those bearing seals with the new (or same) transmission, then I'd get them.

They do reduce the amount of play in the axle shaft.

Aaron

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Here's a link (http://www.rodneydickman.com/n14.html) to one place which sells the bearings I'm talking about; there are others as well.

It's very unlikely that Kitten's car will be keeping its current transmission.  When the day comes, she's almost definitely going longitudinal.  ;D

duh
OK; at the TRANS.  This is pretty new to me; I haven't seen them before; why not ask on PFF to see how many have used them and if anyone has had any trouble?  And over how many miles/what kind of driving?

As a thought - if these fit without any machine work...... do they fit in where the existing (I am assuming) SEAL goes?  Wouldn't that make the bearing a bit smallish?

On the other hand, anything that helps guide/support/seal (especially) something like an axle does seem like a good idea, esp. as Rodney says - "on higher mileage fieros...."
And the price isn't bad at all.  Any idea how long they have been avail?  ie how long they have been tested in road cars?

[/size]

Well I was going to reply to Graeme, but Sandy stole my words & beat me to the "post" button. 

I don't really have anything more to add--he covered it nicely.  P'raps just a re-iteration that the current transmission in there has about 115k on it now, and at most will see only another 50k before falling victim to a swap.

...oh and the reason why I asked here instead of PFF?  :)  Signal-to-noise ratio.  I don't need to take off my socks to count the number of informative (IMO), regular, gramatically-competent posters in PFF's tech section.  The other 8000+ members however tend to post comments like "get them--they're good" without offering any supporting info, or have such poor keyboarding skills that it takes me half an hour to figure out what they were trying to convey.   ::)

         LOL!!!!  Big time!!

But I know exactly what you mean.  And if you REALLY like loud noises, just ask about brakes and the best upgrades!!!  Wow.  The old saying is sometimes true: (I think it was Confusious?) - "It is the empty drum that makes the most noise"......
One to live by!

By the way - I may have misspelled 'Confusious' but that is just my substandard keyboarding skills and communications inabilities at work..... ::) ??? 8) ;D
Have a GREAT DAY!!!!   ;)

oh yeah; more seriously; Sandy:
what trans are you or (if plural) have you used them in - what I am wondering is if they are only avail for a certain one or type.
Rodney is good about replying but it sometimes takes a day or three...
gp

Popular opinion has it that both The Fiero Store & Rodney D. get those bearings from the same manufacturer:  TeckPak-Fitzall (http://www.teckpak-fitzall.com/), part number 75125LRB.

The page where they list the bearings (http://www.teckpak-fitzall.com/teckfitz/products/bearings.htm) states "AUTOMATIC: 125-125C, (3-speed) left & right side, 440-T4, (4-speed), right side only; STICK: SAGINAW-4 speed & 5TM40 - 5 speed, both left & right side, '80-up."

I sent an e-mail off to one of their listed distributors in Mississauga requesting a price quote yesterday; no reply yet.

I have used them in both the muncie 4spd, and in 2 Isuzu 5 spd. When my 1st Isuzu retired (2nd gear) I cut up the tranny cases to transplant the bearing/seals for the new Isuzu....(heh, I'm cheep!)!
Sandy

Interesting thread on PFF at the moment about these bearing/seal assemblies.

click me (http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/057226.html)

They may present lubrication and/or clearance problems in some cases.   :-\

Sandy, have you ever had the axles out since installing the bearings?

Yes I have had them out, no wear problems! I'm guessing the guy installed them wrong. If I remember right there is a 1/8" hole that ports oil to the needle bearing. The instruction specifically point out to allign this up before pressing them in. Once pressed in, their there to stay!
Sandy

I can see a lot of people geting that wrong.  And if they did then it's only a matter of time before they fail.  No brainer I think.


Aaron

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hi Don
just following up on this as I am getting a bit more interested in trannies etc now.

Did you do anything or conclude anything on this?  Any response from that place in Mississauga?  If not, did you keep after them at all?

LMK
g

I haven't done anything about it, no.  A fortunate side-effect of upgrading Sacha's car to the '86 drivetrain was lack of leaky axle seals, so I took the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach this time.

I probabily will use them in the tranny that will be going in with my slow-motion L67 swap though.  Unless I see anything futher between then & now, I'm of the opinion that they're a good thing in the long run, and that the lubrication problem I found mentioned on PFF is an isolated incident.


No, not a thing.  Not all businesses use e-mail reliably though; I'll be phoning them instead when I pick this up again.  If you don't want to wait for me (highly advisable not to  ::) ), it's King-O-Matic (Mississauga) 905-624-4628 (assuming that TeckPak-Fitzall's distributor list is up-to-date).

OK
Can you let me know p/n's and I might call just out of curiousity.  (free LD...  ;))  Here or email me; whatever......
I think I read that they need to be aligned 'exactly so' - to permit an oiling hole to line up with a slot or some such thing to - yes - allow lubrication oil to get into them from the trans..... that could be the cause of failure or else possibly too much silicone sealant plugging up same hole.... :(  which would be a bummer.  I also understand that once installed they are almost impossible to get out (at least without ruining them...)

It is the failure and proof of runtime that I would like to know about but I think Sandy indicated that he is very happy with them.

The reasons I like them are:
1) I'm running much longer axles...ie: could use any extra support!
2) Fiero trannies with higher kms tend to have a large planetary gear that becomes quite 'loose' or 'floating'. These keep it somewhat inside the cases.
Hey, it's an extra bearing in each side...
WARNING: read installation instructions fully before just pounding them in!
Sandy

The manufacturer's part number is 75125LRB.

(translate as "bump"....)
just checking, Don
did you get any or do any more on this? I haven't but now that it is maybe starting to threaten less cold weather I will call that place in TO unless you have etc.  LMK

gp

'fraid I haven't done anything about it yet.

At the very latest I'll be looking in to them somewhen between mid- and late-summer, when I have the "new" cradle set up and I'm ready to start preparing/mounting the transmission.

I may end up looking in to them sooner though, depending upon the results of some other work I hope to be doing soon.  I have one last thing to eliminate before I start pointing a finger at the differential carrier bearings of my current transmission.   :-\

well I am going to call them (and see if a live person answers....)
but in the meantime; if ANYONE does in fact order a set, I would REALLY appreciate a chance to see them and measure them to see if they might fit my (slightly different) Getrag 284 tranny.

I am hoping/guessing that they might fit, but don't want to spend the money on a set just on that.
So
let me know anyone if you don't mind and thanks in advance!
GP

If you like, pop out one of the OEM axle seals from your 284, and measure the depth & diameter of the seat.  I'll do the same with the four-speed I plan on using them for, and we can compare notes.  At worst you'll be out a $10 seal.

hi Don
yes; I will do that and get back to you. Don't hold your breath; it won't be today.
It is march break..... :(

I dragged the transmission out of its cave over the weekend, and took the measurements a few minutes ago.

The diameter of the seal's seat is 2.16"; the depth from the lip of the case to the carrier bearing race is between 0.54" and 0.53" depending upon where I measure it from.

thx Don;
I have to get a bit of space cleared before I can try to pull my engine/trans out to - oh yeah - fix the broken 'dolly' it is sitting on (wood isn't the best solution) so there are THREE extra projects. 
1.  Motivate son to put away snowblower.  Put padlock on frig...... again........
2.  Now that there is space, Pull engine from pile of wiring and parts
3.  Fix/build new engine dolly

(time passes)

4.  NOW...... look at trans/axle bearings...
what is it? April?  Gary might have a chance here.........hmmmm
alarm sets in.  :o

Fast-forward to now, and I have a set of them installed in the 4-speed I'm currently driving on.  The fit between the inner CV joints & the transaxle was sloppy, and was the last suspect in my search for the cause of a rear-end vibration.

Haven't had the car out yet since the install; I wanted to let the sealant cure overnight before refilling the tranny.  Will comment on their effectiveness later.

Total bill was a hair over $100 (CDN) from Rodney D.; we'll see what King-O-Matic can do once I start working on the swap transaxle.

Note that I neglected to mention just how much later, "later" actually meant.  ;)

Inner CV joints are definitely better supported; a fair comparison of the before/after fit would be replacing the hinge pins & bushings in a well-used door.  Rear-end vibes are definitely down a bit too.

hey
it  RUNS!!!!!!! don't complain!

good to get the consumer feedback tho
thx Don
this up and down yr I am having is evidently not finished with me yet.

hmmmm
gotta arrange having "no work" WITH "having money". The two just don't seem to go together.
hmmmm

Worthy of note to anyone using these bearings:

I've found a local source for replacement seals for these suckers.  National Oil Seal part number 323138.

They retail for $6.55ea from General Bearing Service.  Rodney Dickman and/or The Fiero Store want $10-12ea (US) plus shipping.