Ottawa Fiero Club Forum

.Okay, some of you will remember the god-awful mangling to get the WCF poly mounts to fit in on the 4 speed.

Once everything was mounted, I forgot about it and continued on my merry way.  Well, yesterday I tried putting the axles in.  The passenger side is too long and the drivers too short, or the motor/tranny is too far towards the passenger side.

I undid the FWCF mount and put the stock one back in (all the way to the driver's side of the slotted hole). The 3rd pic shows the difference in placement.  I assume we bent the ears mounting it the first time.  It is about an inch.  This is the original mount and it still looks short, even with the inch.  How much play should there be?

The other pics are the axle placement.  Obviously not engaged and thru the carrier enough. (still 1 inch the wrong way, mind)  I propped up the end so that the axle is roughly parallel with the road.  It is fully seated in the tranny and fully compressed into the tripot. (e.g. as short as it will get)

I used the F(frickin'n)WCF front mount, but as Dan pointed out, his are all autos requiring new tranny mount holes anyway.

Any input?  p.s. I hid my BFH in fear of attacking the car......   :'(

not entirely sure what the prob(s?) is/are.......???

in the top pic it looks like you are a COUPLE of inches shy? Is it the wrong axle or is it because the mount (bottom pic) is off or a combo of both? The top pic looks like a FEW inches to me? Would that be right?
what is it you need?  New mounts? Is your engine/trans sitting on the cradle ok otherwise or no? Ie are the other mounts ok?

BUt it is good to see you are working at it ;) ; all the hurdles we need to overcome!?!?!? 

By the way, Don is bringing the envelope with the diags tomorrow friday. Figured that is faster than mail......... ::)
gp

To pull the axle thru the hub is about 3 inches till it stops.  The bottom pic is the original tranny mount and placement.  The tranny is obviously away from it's original location a bit.

The other changes are a different short axle (I believe it's an 84 4 speed AFAIK) so it should be the same as the original.

The rubber between the WCF front mount and the cradle is aftermarket.  I think it was real close to the stock one.  The bolts up and down are a bit offset It would need another 1 or 1.5" to mate the tranny mount as original.  I don't see it being that far out.

I guess my problem is that I don't know how much free play should be in the axle.  I know it should be able to extend an compress a bit in the tripot to allow for suspension movement. 

Also is it equal from side to side or does the length of the axle change the free play?

Gimme a bit...  I have Kitten's car out in the parking lot today.  I can measure approximately how much free play there is in the driver's side axle at normal ride height, and you can form your own opinion.  :)

mine seem to have a 'normal' position or length and that is what I am trying to work towards; I am figuring that using that length shouldn't stress them and result in big ball bearings all over the road (I took a CV joint apart -  it is NOT going back together  :P !)

I think if the axle is THAT much too short that you should try to come up with something longer???

My thoughts at the moment are that whatever Gary has done for an engine mount has placed it too far toward the passenger side.

No hands-on experience (yet), but everything I've researched suggests that with a Fiero manual tranny/L67 swap, you should be able to use the original axles, unmodified transaxle mounts, and only have to build custom mounts for the engine mount & dogbone.   ???

I could also be completely wrong.   :-\

Yeah, the tranny and axles should not get relocated. We mounted the engine on the WCF front mount and then the tranny on behind.  Obviously we should have mounted the tranny where it was and added the 3800 to the front, making the mount as required.

I guess I know why everyone shits on WCF.......

p.s looked good before trying the axles  :-\  level and straight.

Paranoia, paranoid, I may be ill.

Okay, maybe I should have done this first.    :o

I put the passenger (long) axle in, the engine/tranny is still in it's swap position.  It goes in, the hub, etc. fits on the ball joint and there is very little back and forth movement in the axle.  Lifting/lowering the hub seems to not cause any strange effects, and almost all the threads for the axle nut protrude.

AND THE OTHER SIDE STILL IS ABOUT 3" SHORT.  The splines are just short of engaging at the hub end.  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the wrecker provided the wrong axle.  Is the auto axle shorter and would it engage and click into the 4 speed tranny?

Maybe someone can provide a measurement for the short axle.  From the outside of the outer boot clip to the inside of the inner boot clip would be fine.

Man..... it's hot outside.   ???

while you are at it Gary, check the lengths of BOTH axles req'd for this swap. I know that the BEARINGS must be torqued in to a pretty high number - using the axle nut of course - prior to loading any weight on them, or you ruin them right away!! Expensive little experiment, too; at ~$225 each!!!  :o 

You say that the threads almost all protrude out and maybe that is OK but just make sure you do torque those big (24mm or so?) nuts on properly before rolling the thing around.

my two cents for ya....

That's what's playing with my head.  You don't change the axles at all it's the stock Fiero tranny and axles.

The only reason I have a different one is that I gave one up in return for a Fiero airshow.   >:D   >:D

well I would guess, along the same lines as Don, that you remount the trans in its proper and original position and then put engine mounts where you need to. Sounds logical but this is not a swap I know anything about either.

Guess I better get moving on MINE!!! The race is on!!

[desperation]  Don - you better show up now with those plates!!! [/desperation]

 :D

On second thought, you'll have to wait until I get home if you want a free play measurement.  There's no way I'm leaning in to an engine compartment that's coated with Krown while wearing this shirt!   :D

I think I have two pairs of (manual tranny) axles in the pile o' parts as well.  Can measure the driver's side one for comparison if you like.

My experience with WCF is their stuff sucks, who ever designed them must be blind stupid and defienetely does not know which end of a tape measure to use. I am pretty sure I have both the factory standard tranny mounts out in my mess of a garage would recommend using them and modding that piece of crap front mount to fit some how. Dan

Gary--I have a driver's side axle with me today; if you're home when I drop by with the envelope from Graeme you can compare it to the one you have...



My experience is quite the opposite.  I have a full set of WCF mounts on the 2.8, and there's not a thing wrong with them.  Could be just luck though?   :-\  WCF seems to get about a 50/50 love/hate rating over on PFF.   ???

I have found thier stuff for stock engines or tranny mounts are not too bad, its their swap parts that In have had trouble with. That WCF front 3800 mount locates the engine 1" towards the passenger side and about 1/2" toward the firewall compared to where I mount them when I use my own mounts. This may be due to poor quality of copies being made or they just didn't measure or look at one installed in a car using that mount.
My way of mounting is using GM mounts at all four corners along with a very strong dog bone bracket. When you compare the two mine is straight and solid the WCF is crooked and has way too much movement for my liking. Dan

so..........
is anything happening with this, Gary? just wondering what you came up with.
Actually I am SPYing........ trying to find out if you have managed to get further ahead  :o


in the hopelessly backwards race (away from) the non-covetted (sp?) MOST MOTIONLESS FIERO award.....

I'm going back to the original Fiero Tranny mounts which I hope don't leave too much paly in the shafts. 

The front mount needs to be remade.  I have to find some steel plate to redo the bottom piece.

Have no fear, it'll be motionless for some time yet.   :'(

As of about an hour ago I became officially projectless so when can I come up and help with your's. In other words the Mustang is done and gone and I need something to do before my wife notices that I have time on my hands and comes up with stuff for me to do. Or even worse expects me to spend time with my family. Dan

gee Dan
you can sit there, holding hands and looking into each other's eyes .........
and talk about your relationship!  I think the choice is clear!
 O0