Ottawa Fiero Club Forum

following the general approach outlined by Bubbajoe (thx Gary!) I am getting my rear wheels to adapt to the 4 and 3/4" bolt circle (a la camaro, firebird, chev in general) which matches my 12" front camaro rotors.  Unfortunately Bubbajoe didn't put years or models in his website and I haven't got a reply so I am doing the good ole trial and error thing again.
This will eventually end up giving me a much bigger bearing and outer stub axle end, connected to the stock fiero inner axle and a Pontiac 6000 spindle knuckle. The prescribed S10 bearing that I got doesnt fit; I will try a different year or model.  I also found there are TWO 6000's; one with a smaller bolt circle that I assumed wouldn't be big enough.  So right now things are not going together but 'research' continues.  This MIGHT be of interest to anyone doing an engine conversion or upgrade; gives you beefier bearings which I can't help but think is a good thing.
The pic shows the pontiac 6000 bearing assy beside the stock fiero one. Quite a difference!  yeah, the parts are rusty but I am not going to be using this stuff; when i find what works it will be new bearings........ ;)

and here is the bolting plate view.  Note how much bigger it is - you could probably use this to drill for any bolt circle you wanted.......... 8)
maybe.
Gonna think about that approach if I can't find parts that fit together.

the outer stub axle comes off with only a little spring clip.  Pretty easy once you know where to look.  And greasy.........  ::)
this is the outer stub axle; next pic is the other end of it showing the little spring clip.

this is the other end; the spring clip is almost right in the center; it has to be expanded and then the splines just slide apart.  Simple. 8)

here is the right rear corner with the parts removed in place; not too difficult except for the tie rod end.......... arghhhhhhhh >:(

You might be able to see the small groove in the outer splines; that is where the spring clip locks in.

the S10 outer stub axle supposedly will slide right on to those splines and also bolt up to the Pontiac 6000 knuckle. Once I find the bearing that fits........... ::)
more to come as I get the parts.  Hopefully this week.  Work keeps getting in the way!!!!!!!!!! :)

One thing I've noticed about Bubbajoe's site is that everything is just vague enough to get you to contact him for info.  I don't think we should assume that there is an s-10 part that will 'slide' in.  There may be a fair machining job involved.

Going to the bigger Ponti plates and redrilling the pattern may be a good way to keep the ebrake.  Not sure which way the 6000 pulls.

hey Gary; nice to hear from you.....   how's things?
re: Bubbajoe; I sent him an email (one only, to be fair) and have not heard back so I am going ahead with my investigation.
I got the 6000 spindle/knuckles whatever you want to call it and they are VERY similar to the fiero; just a bigger hole for the bearing, obviously. The tie rod goes on the same place and it uses the same funny ball joint too; so it looks like a bolt in, at least right now.
I looked at his website again and it looks like his bearing 'sort of' fits in the upright; that is, there seems to be a space around part of the bearing assy that I will not want.  It will put a LOT of stress on the remainder of the bearing.
(got a 2.8 I am trying to figure out what to do with....... ;) )

ok, I have to say it now... What are you doing? Are you makeing a 5th wheel hitch and towing a motorhome with it? You are beefing up the Fiero like a truck. *lol*

But to each their own. :)

Cheers!
Eric

i guess this is a catch up of sorts...........
no ......... I decided not to transform my car into a tractor trailer.......
I am putting bigger, 12" brakes on the front of my car.  This brings in the Camaro 1LE big rotor and the standard 'ole chev 5 on 4-3/4" bolt circle. while I don't actually have to go to that pattern (I could redrill those rotors) I figured that would open up a million possibilities for wheels for me (or anyone).  So I am now exploring what is involved with changing the rear end to a 4-3/4" pattern as well.  Altho the method (swapping in different axle ends) could be used for anyone who is looking for an alternate bolt and/or axle pattern to what they have.
Might be of use and/or interest to anyone who is beefing up their engine etc and wants to do the same to the rest of their drivetrain.........   ;) ;D

Well, Well! another conformed individual. Yes, I have 6000 HD spindles w/outer 6000 axles mated to fiero inner cv's! The shafts are HD units(heat-treated, to handle a V8), w/ additional 4" for my required, added width. 308, if you look at rear discs/calipers for an '86 6000 Heavy Duty, you will find that those parts will fit. In fact they are almost an exact replica of the Fiero rear brakes. (actually not sure, but I think the discs are beefier). Even the E-cables will fit! I had to do this when Transportation Ontario dis-approved my 'Jamar' Ebrake system w/ much larger discs& calipers! Thr Fronts required an spacer mount for my large caliper/disc package. And the bonus... you can chose from 100's of wheel packages!
Sandy

hi Sandy
thx for the input!!!!! I am TRYING to get to a 5 on 4 3/4" bolt pattern but there are a few bumps in the road.  What bolt pattern are you running if it is a 6000 hub?
I am not clear on the rear discs/calipers issue tho; isn't the 6000 a front wheel drive car?  But it has rear discs and calipers with ebrake?  Is it a single thickness rotor?  I am guessing so - my 92 Z34 Lumina (parts car) has single thickness rear brakes - maybe it is the same setup!!!  I have got a ventilated rear disc setup now that I think I will follow for now - it is basically the Walt Zettner setup; 11.25" Lebaron rotors with 80-85 Cadillac calipers (yes, that have an ebrake)...
But wheels has become an issue. :(  to get wheels that look good in the wider body I have a VERY limited selection.  I am now looking at getting longer rear control arms to bring the wheel out to a more acceptable location and reduce the offset situation.  Have been calling and emailing about that today in fact.
Any input is very very welcome and thanks!
gp

 The bummer with the rear is that they are a single disc setup. The fronts are double drilled, crosshatched and I now have spares when I removed the rear for ONT Transport :(
As for lengthening the rear control arms, isn't that going to possibly generate more 'bumpsteer'? Why wouldn't you just mount the original farther out?
Sandy

hi Sandy
probably two ways to look at it; generally the longer the arms the less is the effect of the bumpsteer due to the longer tie rod too.  But the best way is something like the Held Motorsports rear lower control arms that eliminate the tie rod altogether by connecting that part of the hub to the lower control arm; so it is not affected by the relative movement of the body.  I think it is a VERY good idea.....
But I am interested in what bolt pattern you were able to get or find; if I have to I will go to a different bolt pattern on the front to match something that is more easily found on the back.  I have the HD 6000 hub and spindle assy so it has the bigger hub and a HUGE bearing assembly, so I am quite happy with that.  I guess ultimately I do NOT have to use the 4 3/4" bolt circle, I simply assumed it would be the most popular.  Maybe not anymore.
So more flexibility translates to yet another decision...... ::)
oh well......... ;)

well.........THIS is part of the reason I didn't make it to the mtg; I just got home at 6:30PM (more than a BIT dirty :-X ) and decided to keep going on my investigative parts interchangability mission........ ::)
So; after checking out Bubbajoes website where he puts a Pontiac 6000 knuckle on his fiero and uses an S10 axle-end and S10 bearing assy (without listing any years) I have come to the conclusion that the one little word he 'snuck' in there is a significant one.  He says to assemble the bearing assembly into the prepared knuckle .........  :o
That means the knuckle has to be machined, as the S10 bearing does NOT fit it in stock form. Or at least the brand new one I got wasn't even close...
And looking at it I was concerned that the bearing would not have enough of the 'bearing surface' inside the knuckle. This pic shows the new S10 bearing and just above the bearing place (that the bolts go thru) is the shoulder of the bearing that will actually slide into the knuckle.  It is probably about 3/8" high; doesn't seem like much...... ???
So that is my first concern..............

so I was concerned about this fairly small bearing area until I took the hub out of my Z34 Lumina......... (monster bearing in it by the way.......) and saw the size of the 'shoulder' that sits inside its 'knuckle' (actually is a different setup)
here is is; hope you can make it out.  It is the part that is just above the vice (YES it is very rusty......)

anyway, this is interesting:
with all the axle-end swapping that I am looking into I wanted to see if the Lumina Z34 (larger, heavier car with a larger more powerful motor) axle ends would fit the S10 bearing assy OR the fiero middle axle section (or both).  As you can see from the pile I have been fiddling with parts a bit.
Anyway, you might see the (huge) Lumina axle stub slid on over my fiero axle end - sort of upper left of pic) which shows they are using a single spline AT LEAST for the 85 fiero, 92 Lumina, 87 S10's and more, no doubt.....
which is interesting and might be useful to someone looking to do a bolt pattern or suspension upgrade.....
All the 'junk' is axle ends, bearings, knuckles of various things I've been trying........

soooooooooo.... according to a particular website, where 4 3/4" rear hubs were adapted...... the guy put in "prepared" pontiac 6000 uprights with S10 bearing assemblies and S10 axle ends (which go onto stock fiero inners).
The word "Prepared" is a biggie. I had to have the S10 axle ends rebuilt to fit onto the fiero axles. The 6000 uprights need a bit of machining to have the bearing fit into it (at all) AND also to get the bolts of the S10 bearing to line up and thread in.  Kinda important. But it is done.  Here is what goes into a simple axle end!!! :o  Lotsa parts; and they were NOT that easy to take out (so they are NOT going back in ::) )
The front of the picture shows all the parts that fit inside the axle end... ??? somehow. Not a job for anyone who is mechanically challenged .. like me.
The new rebuilt ones are in the background.  
Someday this will all be worthwhile......... :P

 ??? So what are you doing for the front? I have used wheel adapters all the way around my car but i would love to change them to an axel/hub combo that works!! Please keep this thread going!

Hi Wade, welcome to our little group.  Do you still have the 'Lethal Weapon'?  I'm sure most of the guys have drooled over a pic or two.  Got any recent ones?

We haven't seen Graeme for a bit.  I believe now till tax time is his 'snowed under' season.

It really is time we tried to get an up to date coherent page put up for several of the topics including this and Aaron's Northstar conversion.

On the side, my in-laws are in Cape Breton and I get down that way usually every summer.  Love the area, hate the new hiway.  You miss all the interesting little places, although my wife likes to get in the car here and out at her Mom's place.  ;D
Gary

 :) Hia! I still have the 'Lethal Weapon'. I have too much time and $ into it to ever sell it. I blew a head gasket the other year and the car is parked inside my new garage until I can afford to do more with it.  I’ve spent 35k on the garage or more so my Fiero budget has been slashed for a while. I’m in the process of putting a v6 my other l4 car just because I must have a Fiero to drive in the summer!

I plan on doing bead blasting and some powder coating in my garage. I have the blast cabinet and a honk’n Princess Auto compressor.

   I just got the heat hooked up last week. It is in floor and it’s sweet! It’s so nice to pick a rag up off the floor and it’s all cuddly and warm.

   I have purchased an LT1 intake and plan to put it on when I do the head gasket. Take a look at www.lt1intake.com

   If you’re ever in Nova Scotia look me up!


This is the view most people get of my car at night!

http://users.eastlink.ca/%7Ewadecustance/fiero/backlight.htm

hi Wade
as Gary correctly stated I am snowed under with work - this is my craziest time of yr and it goes thru end march but it is a bit chilly to work out in the garage anyway.....  :o
I have an 'assy' worked up for the front hubs and actually..... ummmm.... now that I remember that I have a red car in the garage I should probably go and get my parts back from the machine shop..... (embarrassed........)  
anyway
it is an S10 spindle stub installed into the fiero spindle upright (I have pix and will dig some up) so that I can use a camaro/corvette rotor with a wilwood caliper (couldn't resist!) and that makes use of really BIG meaty bearings and a heavy axle stub etc and gives me the same 4 3/4" bolt circle.  The Vette rotor is a slide on; that is, it doesn't have wheel studs in it so I am using a camaro hub assembly; TURNED DOWN (a la the 'turned down fiero hub assy' for the grand am conversion)
and then the vette 13" rotor slides over that.  I haven't yet got my bracket made up for the new calipers but going to 4 piston makes them self-centering and thus a bit simpler - once the caliper is in place, it STAYS there!! (no sliders or pins).
anyway
I stopped posting partly because I was getting emails from a few people who .... well.... might have not been too 'careful' about how they did things and .... I got a bit concerned about liability or even moral responsibility if things went wrong.  This is actually life and death stuff so it can't be a budget-conscious project.  It has to be done right and will cost whatever it costs.  
Will try to find my pix to show you what I am talking about but........ yes busy busy these days.  I expect my next 2 days off in a row will be in April.
GARY!!
how ya been!?!?!?!?
talk later guys
gp

 :) Thanks for the reply!  I was digging around in the forum and saw how you did the fronts. I can see why you would worry about people coping that. I wouldn't do it that way for fear of that breaking, but we all make our choices, and have to live with our own engineering. That being said, I am still impressed! Larger bearings and spindles would rock! It just too bad we can get some one to manufacture new ones with a larger spindle that would be bolt ons, for a reasonable price.

actually, it is WAY-overengineered but that just gives me a really nice warm feeling....
I know there are aftermarket guys who .... hint/insist/suggest that the existing fiero spindles are too small and flimsy for bigger brakes (and other things) and they sell upgraded ones.  However, I haven't actually found anyone who has had a real life BREAKAGE........??? why would that be?  
The spindles I am using are from an S10 and are identical to the camaro (using P/N's) and similar medium size heavier cars (that run 3600 lbs and carry big blocks..... and maybe do wheelies with LOTSA weight on those spindles, etc!!!).  They are massive compared to the little fiero ones.....
And they are actually installed in a similar (not exactly) manner; a tight press fit into the upright and then welded both sides - by a good competent welder - and THEN finished up on a lathe.  I might have a chance to get my stuff back this wk - I literally just forgot about it  ::)   and if so will get some pix off.  It all fits inside an IROC Z 16" rim but interestingly I am going to have to go to 4 "REAR" rims to get the offsets I want (fronts and rears are different... ??? )
I might be able to (remember to) take some measurements of the spindles and you will see the difference in x-setional area and thus strength.  I am trying to 'fix' things so that I don't spend any money on machining rotors; they are a "wear" part and I want to be able to just replace them in place.  I might not be able to do that with the big vette fronts.  Will see.  It is VERY close right now; the Wilwood caliper ends up with about 1/8" clearance to the rim.

The rear Lebaron rotors slip right on; no probs.  The wheel assy fits perfectly; the tire finishes just about 1/8" or so inside my fender lip.
YOU SHOULD NOTE THAT MY STUFF/SELECTIONS IS INTENDED TO GIVE ME A WIDER FOOTPRINT; MY CAR IS 3" WIDER EACH SIDE AT THE BACK THAN A STOCK FIERO and is about 2" wider each side at the front......  I also am not sure how this stuff would work with the stock strut at the back....... (wheel width and offset etc....)
anyway
if i can be any help i will try but i am working.....like now .... for example, (sunday) so it might take a bit to respond to some things.....  I am hoping to do 2 straight weeks at it in April/May (when this crazy time is over) and that should get me somewhere.. ;)
-gp

Excuse my stupidity! If those are pressed in, and then welded they are probably much stonger than the originals. I was thinking ya just cut the spindle off flush and welded a new on on. I stand very much corrected. I will need to start saving some coinage. Thanks for the insite.

yup; I decided to try to 'copy' the orig design/method. THIS is where a really good quality shop is a MUST.  Not every machine shop is prepared to do a close fit on these two items, it seems.  I picked up a pair of spindles from a camaro for about $10 each I think and then had them cut away all the metal that didn't look like spindle stub...... LOL.  Same as sculpting an elephant out of a block of granite........

but it is exact work; don't go with the cheapest price in this stuff.  Still, it isn't rocket science, either, so talk to a few shops and get a feel for them and cost etc.  If one is dramatically less than the other(s) there is your hint.......
good luck
gp