Ottawa Fiero Club Forum

Speaking of 88's, I started the nose swap last night.  If my wife hadn't hidden my snips on me before leaving for her class I might have been able to prep the space under the RH headlight for the new battery location too!  I digress...

I can't for the life of me figure out where those two plastic blocks go.  I remember you describing it to me, but now that I look at it with the impact absorber in place I can't picture it.   :-[

Don't suppose you'd mind putting a big red circle in the appropriate place on one of these photos, would you?   At the moment I'm guessing that they should go behind those skinnier sections of the impact absorber?  :D



Life is rough.   ;)

2nd photo

They go on the bottom of the metal bumper and line up to support the plastic part. Didn't realize when you asked for the bumper but I think you might need the different signal light housings. If they do not line up let me know and  I will try and find the right ones for you. Dan

So I wasn't as far off-base as I feared that I might be in my musings.  Thanks!  One drill-and-push-pin job coming up when I get home today!



I wasn't sure about that either--with the two fascias off-car and side-by-side, the cut-outs for the signal lights appear to be in the same location.  I haven't tried fitting the new nose to the car yet though, so I can't say for certain.  I'll drop it on there for a test-fit tonight after I hack up a hole for the battery tray and let you know.

If you have the round 88 trim, it will have a marker light/trim piece that covers the whole distance except the small front spear. At least that's what my GT one does.

The SE ribbed one has the spear, then the light, then a second bit of separate trim, I think.

Ahhh nuts.  I thought something was different about the marker lights/trim arrangement, but I didn't look at it all that closely.   :-[

Sounds like at the very least I'm going to need the '88 front marker lights; still not sure about the fit of the front signals, but that'll only take a few minutes to find out after I get home.

I feel like I'm having a blonde moment.  You don't happen to remember what orientation they were in, do you?   ???   No matter which way I place them, it doesn't look "right".

I strongly suspect that the rust-stained side mates up against the metal bumper, but horizontal vs. vertical has me stumped. :-\

The rusted part does go against the bottom flat part of the metal bumper so most of piece points out to support the nose. They bolt on the bumper just beside the nose openings so you do not see them when the nose is on. Holes may already be there.
Went to wreckers today looking but could not find proper signal lights as they were already missing when I got the nose. From what I can see they are the same ones the aero nose uses.
Trying to find a picture showing placement of parts but no luck so far. Dan

LOL that explains why I couldn't find an orientation which looked right.  I was trying to fit them between the face of the metal bumper and one of the weaker sections of the plastic impact absorber!  ::)  (red circled areas on the photo below)



Thanks.  If you spot a pair some time, would appreciate it if you would let me know.  Don't make any special trips just for that though--the "old" marker lights will keep everything legal for the time being.  I'll just have to pretend that the gap in the trim isn't there.  :)

Took a good look at 87 in local wreckers today and found front signal lights in trunk, who would ever think to hide them there. Dan

If you had seen some of the stuff that I stashed in the trunk of my 2M4 when I sent it off to the wreckers, you wouldn't have been surprised.  :)

I take it the lights are no longer in the trunk, and are in your possession?


I finished cutting out the hole for the battery last night, and gave the nose a test-fit.  Looks like I'll have to drill three new holes for push-pins where the center of the fascia fastens to the underside of the bumper, but everything else lines up nicely!

Tonight's project will be to install the nose, and get all the measurements I need to have someone weld up a battery tray...

Of course the lights are now sitting on a shelf in my garage. I believe 10 gauge steel 10 inches wide and then 9 inches down 9 1/2 inches across and then 10inches back up. Like a big U shape but with square edges. On inside mark and trim to match upper frame to allow for wiring and headlight clearance. Reccomend you check measurements my memory may be faulty. Dan  

dguy
Was thinking of putting on a new nose on my 85 Se. Where do you hand you hat, so I can take a look?

Much appreciated!!!



I'll know for certain later this weekend...  I think.  Didn't get to installing the fascia last night due to lack of time & energy.

I might be able to install it this weekend--we pick up a 6 week old rottweiler pup on our way home tonight, so all bets are off as far as getting anything done this weekend!   ;)

The hole for the battery tray is cut, and the fascia is mounted.  I should be able to get the battery tray manufactured, painted, and ready for installation this week, I hope.  Brian, are you still interested in having one made up at the same time if I can get a decent price for it?

The lower dam isn't on the car yet; looks like the owner of the doner liked to park real close to curbs.  There are also two or three spots under the bumper where I need to drill new holes for those silly push-pins, presumably due to differences between the mounting of the '88 nose and the '85.

The grey splotches in the front & centre is a repair-in-progress of the mounting holes for the licence plate bracket.  I started it the repair, and the honour of finishing it goes to my wife who's just itching to put what she learned at a body repair course to the test!     :)

[edit: holy crap that pic looked awful at 1024x768.  let's try this again!]

Still interested in the tray. Give me a call when you can.

ok ok; I GOTTA ask.........HOW did you get your wife to take a body repair course or is this the ultimate leg-pull? ;D
Now I can hold that up as an example to mine!!!! Great!!!
And if you need minor welding done (battery tray) AND it is within my abilities I am willing to do that stuff. If it is too fussy and skill-demanding (ie REALLY light gauge stuff, aluminum, stainless etc) then I am out of that picture, but for things I can do on my mig I am not so bad. Dad sent us on a Lincoln School of Welding course when I was a kid (...."you gotta learn a trade, son".....)  Not the ideal way to spend a summer but I am REALLY happy now......
I will tell you if it is something I can do or not.  Just so you (or anyone) knows, I would also ask for a bit of $$ to cover cost and consumables. Hope that isn't too cheap of me but I expect it would always be a fraction of what a shop would charge.  Just thought I would put that out there.

No, no leg-pulling involved.  She's for real.    8)

Sacha has somewhat of a creative edge, and wants to get out of her current career.  Out of curiosity she took a handyman-level body repair course at Algonquin a couple of months ago, and absolutely loved it.

At the moment she's seriously considering taking more advanced courses, with the goal of eventually picking up an apprenticeship somewhere.  The ultimate goal being that of painting, even doing custom airbrushing jobs.



Nothing which requires a great amount of finesse I would imagine: 10 gauge steel, u-shaped bracket roughly 10" x 10" x 10", to be fabricated then welded to the frame so that it hangs below the headlight.



I found the mandatory shop courses I took while in high school neat at the time, but at the time computers were neater.  Now I find myself sitting in a flagging industry, and with a hobby which could certainly make use of a number of "trade" skills which I had previously overlooked.   :-\



Too cheap  ???  Not at all.  I never expect anyone to donate their time and materials to someone else's project!

Anyroad, if it sounds like something you would be comfortable doing, let me know and I'll get the exact measurements for you.  Would probably be two trays actually; Brian (GoFast85) got the bug for a similar battery setup when he was checking out my work-in-progress a couple of weeks ago.  :)

wow
if she loves it, that is the BEST possible scenario. She will be good at it. End of story. What a super development (for you and your car), too!! Too many people are into (business) things simply to pay the bills so having a partner who LIKES doing that.......wow again. You will be driving a work of art and have to FRAME it!! LOL!! ;)
re: welding - willing to try almost anything (mild steel related); 10 gauge is nice 'n heavy so easy to weld.  I am contemplating doing the same thing so there is a benefit here anyway.  I have already removed my rusted out battery tray remains.  Were you going to get the steel; was the shop going to do that?; did you want to cut the steel pieces yourself? It may be possible to enlist Aaron to get a piece (pieces?) bent (sheared?) at his work but don't know of course without asking.
Did you plan on that 10 ga. being the 'frame' too or is there a supplemental angle support etc? Is this meant to be an open top box or with some sort of lid (and therefore vent)?  I am guessing at the moment that it is a relatively short sided open top frame/box that you have in mind.  Some kind of clamp or tie-down for holding the battery in place.  So many questions!!!!
And finally you say you would weld it to the frame. That is fine of course but if I was to do it my welder isn't all that mobile..... 8) needs 240V and my bottle of gas.  Or you could make it so it is removable (bolted) if you want. Will it be possible to remove the battery once the box is in place?
finishing
my sandblasting cabinet is not done yet (gee what a surprise ::) ) but hopefully soon. I may just finish out my tool complement by buying that pipe and tube bender (expnsv!!! :o ) after all. I am getting busy again and that means less time for fooling around in the garage (but a bit more $ for toys!!!! ha ha!!!! ;D )  Might even decide this aft.
gp

Ok that wasn't fair.  I had just about finished up my reply to you, hit the Preview button, and our gateway to the World Wide Wasteland went down.  Lemme try this again!



Ahh, but it will be both framed and driveable.  It's just that in this case the frame is on the inside of the artwork, rather than surrounding it.  ;D



I was going to get a shop to handle this side of it.  My cutting tools currently consist of a hacksaw & a Dremel.  ::)  Not to mention that I'm not sure where to purchase steel stock from.



Yes, yes, yes, and yes.  :)

If you cut out the "floor" below a headlight and face the car, the box will hang down below the light, with its sides to the left/right of the battery, leaving the top, front and rear of the battery exposed, but shielded by the fender liner & the fascia.  I'm probably going to use one of CTC's universal battery tie-down kits to keep it from sliding about.

I have a photo at home which I can post later tonight which should make everything clear.



Not a big deal--the car is driveable.  I just have to keep the speed down so that the hood doesn't get blown off the roof.  ;)



Yup.  Either from above by first removing the headlight, or from below by removing the fender liner and extracting it through the wheel well.



The only difference between men & boys, is the size of their toys.   ;D

Don, if Sacha is interested, I have a shitload of airbrush magazines she could borrow.

I have a couple of airbrushes somewhere in a box   ::)  and a nice Italian compressor made for an airbrush.  I haven't done anything for a long time.

Gary

I’m certainly not opposed to helping out.  I seem to have to tools for the job, and I have to design a bracket it time anyway.

I can bend the metal instead of welding it.  We also have these cute little nutcerts at work that hold really well, even set into ultra thin sheet metal (one of the things they were designed for).

I have attached a picture of the rear transmission bracket that I made this passed weekend.  It’s a long story, but long story short, I didn’t like the quality of the brackets I got from Rodney Dickman.

The bracket is 1/4” steel, one piece (no welds).  Bent on a brake press.

For the job I would recommend no thicker than 12 gauge steel or 1/8” 5052 aluminum (opinions vary).  It can be picked up at “The Metal Supermarket” just off Sheffield Road, in the west end, or at “Loucon Metal” in Nepean.  Or perhaps at my work (welders also available).

Aaron

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looks like a very nice piece and if my guess is right, very well made. There; you guys have lots of help available! 8)

Maybe we can bring the 2+ machines down to Barhaven for a Welding bee next week ;D

sure; I'm game. the only stipulation ...... no there will be TWO..... is that we need to schedule a time so I can plan around it.
Cohen's is nearby and so is Loucon Metals.  If you have a design and measurements that would help - also if you at least KNOW what materials etc you want to use.

The OTHER stipulation? ..........
you are not allowed to comment on my garage  :P ::)

happy to help if I can.
Aaron; if you are on could you email me; I have a question for you; don't want to plug up things here; not really fiero related at all.
 ;D

What, no drop-in clinics? :o



Speaking of which--I ordered a 10" x 30" sheet of 10 gauge steel from Loucon Metals last week, and apparently it's ready for pick-up.  Aaron's sexy little tranny mount made my brain wander over into bend-to-shape, weld-in-place territory.

Aaron--see what you get for posting that photo?  ;)  Would you be interested in helping me "get bent" some time between now & Saturday?



You can't scare me--I've seen Gary's garage.  ;)

HA!  Gary's a rank amateur; a beginner. The boy has MUCH to learn about messing a garage....... his is virtually EMPTY!!! ;D

(sound of drumming fingers waiting for Gary to read this..... LOL 8) )

anyway, let me know what is happening and if I can help - but I am pretty serious about the scheduling thing, just so you know.  Normally at this time of year you COULD just drop in, but it is crazy this year; don't know what is going on.......

I'll be at work tonight (Thursday) until about 10 or 11 p.m. working on my car.  You can come over anytime after 4:30 p.m.  We'll get you hooked up.  Apart from that I can give a tentative for Saturday morning but not a positive.

I'll need very accurate dimensions.  Within half a millimeter if possible, where the bends meet up with the body on opposing surfaces.

You can email me at aaronkemp_000@yahoo.com and from there I can give you my other email and contact info, or you can get my concact info from GoFast85, or fiero308.


Aaron

.

hi Aaron
sent you an email off list.  let me know what you think when you get a chance.
THX
gp

...and another email from me.  :)

edited because the attachment didn't take the first time

The tray has been bent into shape, welded in to place, and I installed the battery & completed the wiring yesterday.  It's a funny thing--the turns over much faster now with the proper sized battery in there as opposed to a 425CCA lawn tractor battery.   ;D

I can't comment on any changes in handling with the battery weight now as far forward and low as possible, as there are a number worn components in the front end which like to mask most other sensations.   ::)

In any case, my heartfelt thanks go out to:

• 2ML67 for bringing the nose up from Peterborough, and giving me the idea to relocate the battery in the first place.
  
• aaron88 for a masterful bout of late night bending & cutting.
  
• fiero308 for taking some time out of the middle of the day to weld the sucker in place.
  
• FieroBUZZ for not running over that intact spare tire tray with his lawnmower after all.

A number of people whom I've spoken with on- and off-line expressed an interest in the dimensions of the tray.  I'll post a follow-up later today with them...

Here be the measurements.  Please excuse my drawing skills--I ain't no architect, and MS Paint ain't AutoCAD.   ;)

A full-size battery fits like a glove, with just enough room for top-post terminals.  There is also sufficient room to use side-terminals if you trim away some of the body metal to the left or right of the tray.

Other useful info:

• RH horn element had to be relocated.
• Headlight, RH side marker, and horn wiring had to be re-routed.

i think that is a MASTERful drawing.  Really. Very good; I was expecting something .......less.
I also think it is great that you posted the info in a way that pretty much anyone can use it; I have been 'victimized'....... :-\ in the past by articles that glossed over some pretty critical info.
Thanks for posting it and sharing!!! :)

I think it’s also notable that the sides aren’t exactly bent at 90°.  There is a slight taper on it.  Meaning that the mouth is larger than the base.  This is important for placement, “It’s much easier to get the peg in the hole if it has a slight taper”.  Even if it’s less that one degree. ;)

Aaron

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Grats for the fine job. Hope that this gets out to people that want an alternative to the "tire mount". Now time to get mine started.

nice, man
    i love the idea.....  although i was told that on every foot of wire to the battery u lose a certan amount of voltage or something like that.... do u know if by relocating ur battery to the front of the car u lose voltage? ???

The trick is to use a larger diameter cable.

Partially correct.

Just about every wire you'll ever get your hands on has a certain amount of resistance over a given length.  Generally speaking, larger gauge wires have less resistance per foot than smaller gauge wires.  From what I've seen, most people who go with a remote battery installation use 4GA or larger cables.

I think I bought size 00 which is 2# larger sizes than 4. No such thing as overkill :D 

What about dual batteries wired in parallel mounted in the nose the same way you made yours?

Yeah it's funny a little lawn-mower battery can start the Fiero, But two would also probably be less weight than the single monsters they sell for the car..

Two six-volt batteries wired in series would actually be better than a single 12-volt unit..

With 2 seperate batteries they even out the HIT of the drain when your turning the key..

Like Peter holding up Paul because Mary's been hitting him hard !

DONT CLICK THIS:http://www.ammoman.com/Fiero

Glad to be here!
Rob