new member in the toronto area

[JAYGT]

hi im jason in the toronto area.  just bought my first 87 black gt  two weeks ago.
hoping to do the 3800sc swap.   here are some pics.

http://community.webshots.com/user/redcivicblackhood

any others in the toronto area?
any others with 3800 swap?

[FieroBUZZ]

Welcome to our little group, Jason.

Nice GT you have there.  Does that Firefly actually work? If so you won't have trouble with a 3800 swap.

Talk to Dan, he's our resident mechanical fool with 3800's. His username is L67 something.    He lives in Belleville.

He's just a hack, so you might want to get Racetech to do the job for about 20k$.  I'm sure they'll have your car back to you about 2006.

BTW contents of this message are intended to be humorous.  If anyone is offended, tuff titty!!!!!  

[aaron88]

welcome.

what the Buzz said.

[JAYGT]

i went to jim at race teck and he said it would cost 15, 000$  to put the 3800v6  in my fiero.  but he would have to charge over 3000$ to fix the rust in the rear frame rails first.  he said it would be hundreds of hours to do it myself and im not  that good with a welder.  i didnt bring him the car but he said 99% of fieros need it.  i askt him what if i do the install myself.  he said he would sell me a install kit for 3500$  and wiring  for 2700$. this is all from memory.  why would a person spend 20 000$ on a old rusty fiero when they could get a mid 90's  lt1 300hp corvette for the same price?  i am jaded.  

i am sad that this is going to cost so much.  my 200hp prelude engine swaps in my civics only costed 3500 total including engine tranny so this is a big shock to me. i just droped the swap in and was doin high 12's at cayuga.
 evin after about 20 hours of reading about fieros everywhere on the net i never once heard about this rust problem on fieros.  sure enough i go home take off the rear plastic wheel wells and there is rust there.  why didnt anyone say anything about this problem?  why is there not a sticky at the top of a page here for new guys?

i am still going to drive my fiero this summer.  no matter what.  i do love it.  its just going to take alot more grief than i thought.

[JAYGT]

the shop i went to was at 401 and dixie road.  also the tube engine cradle he has is 5000$  it would be cool but  thats way out of my leage.   if i could weld all i would have to do is make and sell 6 of those a year and  spend the rest of the year in cuba.   oh well back to reality.

[FieroBUZZ]

Sweet!!!! Sound like nice fellas!  

RUST
Yes, Fieros rust.  It's pretty common and I can't imagine doing any reading and not finding a reference.  Good news is that it's often either surface rust or hidden from view. (means you don't need to be tidy).

If the floor is solid and you are confined to the rear area you should be fine.  If the rails and strut area are BAD then toss the frame and get another (no biggie)  The battery area and the sides of the trunk are first to show.  Get up under the liner and see the frame rail (I'll put up a pic or two).  Is it rusty or is it gone (finger poke thru).  This ties the 'box' where the motor and cradle are to the passenger compartment.  You can weld in metal box sections to fix as they don't show.  Heck I'll start a rust thread.

3800 s/c or n/a  Okay you want one and can't see 20k$  Now don't get me wrong, you could easily drop that into it. Here's what you need: guys add in what I forget  
1. non rusty space frame and cradle    Yes you may need some fixes The car is old.

2. 3800 motor DOH!  Carparts.com or your fav wrecker. The work is the same for s/c or n/a and yes the innards are different.  stock about 240 hp vs 215-220 hp, but lots more fun in s/c form. Ask Dan. Also the puter and harness.

3. Tranny....I have a 4 speed but the easy way is to use the donor auto.  The auto is a faster drag car hands down.

4. Mounts... need to mount the front of the motor and a new dogbone.  Dan adds a side mount and relocated alt bracket (nice stuff).  Tranny needs some mods to bolt in (new holes).
Axle work for auto or clutch and flywheel for manual.

5.Wiring...Scary stuff but break it down wire by wire and it looks doable. Dan has done or almost done 4.
5 A OOPS! forgot you need an exhaust system. Needs to be custom made.
6. Time and tools... DIY and save have someone else do it and pay. (pm for info) Mine has only taken 14 months or so so far    

7.  Shit eatin' grin...take a test drive.

Yes there are other things.  You'll want to upgrade or fix things that you may never have such good access to again. Poly susp, brakes, etc.
Gary

[FieroBUZZ]

Okay, I didn't read that back so it probably makes no sense.

Harder than dropping a new motor in a nice new clean Honda...maybe.  Should it scare you?  Nope!  Willing to invest some time and energy and it's pretty straight forward. Just look at it as one step at a time.

look at some of these.
http://www.fierosails.com/fierosecrets.html
www.l67swap.com

[GoFast85]

Cuba :DDid somewone mention Cuba? I have to wait till fall I guess. The $5,000 cradle is the going rate that Hi-Tech Development Inc charges for the improved subframe including arms and bushings. I assume that the cost is for all of the Research nd Develpment.  Going rate for the used but decent cradles are $100 to 400. I got a quote for $15,000 last year for a V8 conversion from them and I looked in the shop and they had 2 vehicles in there for the work. SOMEONE MUST HAVE MONEY. Delivery time is guaranteed in 3 months with warrenty.
BTW I saw an 1988  3.8 with auto in the i-Classified for $250. You get what you pay for generally speaking.

[JAYGT]

thanks guys i was starting to feel kinda lonley on here.  yup im goin to stick to it.  im goin to put up pics of the rust on my webshots sight.  i will start with shocks, coils, ball joints, tie rods.  hopefully i can drive the car with the rust.  within the next year i will have enough  knowledge  to do the swap myself.  will need a new cradle thats for sure.  maybe i will get a welder and learn to weld.  i have done aluminum welding and loved it.   need sail panels so i have to choose from the non dot matrix ones for 115 plus shippin and the gt dot matrix ones for 200 shipping in.  
i want to port the exhaust manifolds.  if i break the studs whats the best studs and nuts to get.  i heard saturn ones are good?

check out my pics so far

http://community.webshots.com/user/redcivicblackhood

[dguy]

i want to port the exhaust manifolds.  if i break the studs whats the best studs and nuts to get.  i heard saturn ones are good?

I've heard of people using the studs from certain Saturn engines, yes.  No idea which ones though, and haven't yet had need to follow up on it.

Rodney Dickman sells stud & nut kids for the 2.8 exhaust as well; I haven't had a significant complaint about any of his goods yet.

[FieroBUZZ]

Get Rodney's set.  He is an excellent vendor.  If you ask he will send the parts marked waranty replacement or whatever and avoid extra duties.

I spent some time tracking down the quoted Saturn studs.  The part numbers have changed in Canada many times and they ended up changing to an intake stud or something like that.  Available individually, at huge expense.

[GoFast85]

I beleive that Midas Muffler used studs from a Ford Explorer on mine last time. I went to Candian Tire and found the same ones there for a decent price.

[aaron88]

All you really need to know is:
Head type
Bolt length (shank length and thread length if required)
Bolt diameter
Thread pitch (distance between threads for metric or threads per inch for imperial)
Bolt hardness (or strength)

Then you can buy your bolt anywhere they have hardware.

Aaron

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