TOTD Look Good, or Drive Well?

[JAYGT]

trying make a 3000 pound 4 cylinder car go fast is a complete wast of time.  what you do is find a light car and put a high hp moter in it.    i got a 93 civic.  got a h22a 2.2 litre engine and transmission from japan.  higher compression and stock worm gear lsd.   put the 200hp 8500 red line engine in the light civic.  took 400 pounds out of the car and magic.  12 second car.    added spray and hit 11's.    its that simple with a  honda.   it wieghed around 1950 pounds.   i actually built two.  lots of fun beating up on vipers in a cheap rusty civic.  i was on the w5  streetracing  tv show

[FieroDough]

trying make a 3000 pound 4 cylinder car go fast is a complete wast of time.  what you do is find a light car and put a high hp moter in it.    i got a 93 civic.  got a h22a 2.2 litre engine and transmission from japan.  higher compression and stock worm gear lsd.   put the 200hp 8500 red line engine in the light civic.  took 400 pounds out of the car and magic.  12 second car.    added spray and hit 11's.    its that simple with a  honda.   it wieghed around 1950 pounds.   i actually built two.  lots of fun beating up on vipers in a cheap rusty civic.  i was on the w5  streetracing  tv show

  I'd have to call BS on that... My cousing in-law has the h22 in a 92 civic, fully done up with the 5 bolt hubs as well.. No were near that. as a matter of fact I'm sure an l67 fiero would spank him.

[aaron88]

I think most people are missing the point.  Would you still drive your car if it looked like it came from the junkyard but was smoking fast?  As I said before, most people would not, but will say that they would.  So it's not surprising to me to see that most that answered the question respondes as I felt they would.

The question is a catch 22.  Most people can't answer it truthfully because they don't know the answer.

Thank's Kitten, at least you get an A+

Don almost answered the question, but then went back to a very Canadian, neutral response.

Aaron

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[JAYGT]

the 5 bolt type r suspension does weigh more.   my type r modded civic only did 13.5 103  on stock tires at cayuga race way.  
is your friends moter  us or jdm.  us is less hp, lower compression,  open deck block, and no lsd.  if its jdm tranny without lsd then it has shit gears as well. ya thats right huge diff.   i have said before the average time for a h22a swap civic is 13.5  up to 13.9 at worst.   depends on the weight of the car.  did your friend take 400 pounds of weight out of his car?   doubt it.   so is that my fualt now that he built his car wrong?  nope.  is it my fault i built my other car right and did 12.9 109 at cayuga stock tire? remember it is 1950 pounds.  your friends car probly weighs around 2400 pounds , no lsd, us computer, high k us moter, wrong suspension set up, and about 100 other things to screw up.  nope  its your friends fault.

did i say i love my fiero?  im hoping to learn alot and build a sweet car.

[JAYGT]

mr. dough master fiero says"as a matter of fact I'm sure an l67 fiero would spank him. "

dude a l67 in a fiero does low 14's in the quarter mile.  am i wrong here?
thats sounds real slow to me.   heck a 89 crx will do mid 14's with a shitty b16.
my civic wieghs less then a crx and has 200 hp with a stock lsd.
the average h22a swap does mid 13's

why is this so hard to understand?

everyone knows 88-91 civics do mid 14's with the 1.6  b16

everyone knows 92-95 civcis do mid 13's with the 2.2 h22a

if yours doesnt do these times your stupid
if yours does  better than these times your smart.

unless you think you can hook up spray to your l16 and beat a viper?
i did this for two years.

did i say i love my fiero?

[2ML67]

Now lets see if this explains a few things, Aaron is right most say looks don't matter as much but in reality the looks is most important to most people they just don't want to admit it.
As for Hondas Jay you seem all right but recomend you back of on Honda advertisement if you do not want to make enemies here. I know lots of Honda guys, helped do a Prelude V-tech engine instal into a 90,s civic and it only did high to mid 14's. Now before you go insulting the car or the job we did everything was done right. Also a close friend has a heavily modified supercharged and juiced Civic with over $30,000 invested and my almost stock L67 Fiero eats him on the track. Even with his full aftermarket lowered suspension he can't even come close to me on the corners.
I have reaced many modded civics and never lost as well as beaten your infamous Viper. Mine is a 2700 lb 300+ HP car without the need of cheater sprays that has done 7's in the 1/8. Tracks around here not long enough to 1/4 without going off end of track.
What I'm trying to get to here is not to insult you or any one else for that matter the point that matters here most is that this is a FIERO club love the car or hate the car I do not care but do not come on here and insult the car, if you are comparing it to others it should be a good comparison not to a bunch of street abusing rice buckets. The biggest cause of goverment clamping down on and controlling cars is the guys with the $500 dollar Civics and their $10,000 stereos thinking they own the road all because of some piece of junk loud tin can muffler.

[JAYGT]

im sorry to hear about your friend.  you get mid 14's with a b16 swap so he must have screwed up hardcore.  but i guess a full weight si coupe 93 with stock suspension,  us high k h22a without factory lsd , low us compression, wrong camber, stock exhauset , catalitic converter, restrictive intake, wrong ecu, wrong fuel pump,stock tire, stock steel rim, ya i could see the mid 14.  like i said  some people where never ment to be race car builders.

if it was jdm engine did it have the m2a4 tranny or m2b4?  huge difference but you guys wouldnt know this.  was it pre 95 or after 95?  huge difference.    what ecu was it?  p13?  for auto or standard?  most guys get rammed in the but with a auto ecu and they dont evin know it.   if it was a us cars  h22a then its his own fault.

if the car is bone stock evin a simple piece of wood to keep the back suspension from compressing  at launch would make a huge difference.  but im wasting my time.  he didnt do any of these things right let alone the other 50 free or cheap things you have to do.

now the losser that spent 30,000 on a civic must be retarded.  he could of had a nice corvette.  but besides that anyone that would use a supercharger on a civic is a dick head
jackson racings own test car  integra gsr only does 14.8 in the quarter mile.   junk.  so this retard uses one on his 30,000 civic and expects it to be fast?  fucktard.   the boost is limited to 12 pounds max 6 pounds stock.  turbo is the way to go.  you didnt evin say what engine he was using.    

all i said was i went 12.9 109 at cayuga in my stock swap h22a civic. im sorry if this bothers you.   if you did not notice i sold all my civics and kept my pontiac trans am and pontiac fiero gt.  there is a reason for this.  im just sad that i cant drop $4000 and do 12's.
i am hoping to do the 3800sc swap.  i do love my fiero and trans am.  you just cant put your head in the sand  and ignore the fact that civics are cheap and fast.  do you think the acura integra type r is a bad track car?  its one of the best.  well reality is its the same car as a civic just different sheet mettle.  so you bolt on all the type r stuff ,  weigh 400 pounds less then the type R  and its one sticky race car.

i am going to be a  pontiac guy till the end.  my first car was a pontiac turbo trans am and ill still have this trans am when im old and grey.

the one thing that made me sad was hearing the fastes 4.9 v8  300hp fiero with spray could only do 12.5  .     just hurt to hear that.   but im still going to build up my fiero just not going to be that fast thats all.

so i hope you can see i am not bashing fieros.  i love myn. i have big plans for it.  its just not going to be as easy as i thought.  heck hearing from hi-teck at dixie and 401 that 99% of fieros around here need 3500$  in rust work on the back ends   is a tuff pill to swallow.   im tryin here.   by mid summer ill post up pics of my fiero finnished hopefully.  i evin want to try to get it kinda done and go to the daytona speedway meet.

[FieroDough]

Not to be rude, but either you are bs'ing us or you are brain washed by the import mods propaganda...

BTW: a 3800SC (WITHOUT NOS!!) Breaks into the 11's. Want prrof? www.fierox.com So don't come here crying that the Fiero can't be made to go fast.

Second, Don't beleive that Japan engine crap. The have stricter emissions than here. The engines are not better. Some models are offered in Japan and not in America because of import trade laws. For every 10 Amercan cars on the market, Auto manifacturers can import 1. So what are they gonna do? import a car the can make the best profit with. Not one a handfull of people will buy. So the grocery getter is the market they go for.

Yes the Civic has alot of potential, and yes Honda makes amayzing motors. But in the end, hte fact remains, 3.8L of gas burns hotter than 2.2L of gas.

Don't call people stupid because of the way the build their cars. If you can't respect people on here then leave.

Cheers!
Eric

[2ML67]

You know I may of been mistaken when I said Jay you seem all right. Actually you are sounding more and more like an ass. Maybe you should sell your Fiero and stick to your rice crap. If you came on here looking for help than you must be even dumber than you sound because I can gurantee your big mouth has ruined any chance you had here.
Most import piece of shit modded civics are not even safe for the road. All you idiots care about is how stupid your ground effects and wings look and how loud your piece of shit exhausts sound. It is clowns like you that give true sports cars a bad name. My advice to you is go stick your head back up your hondas ass and get lost your kind is not wanted here. This is a group of decent people who do not want your kind of bull shit.

[JAYGT]

thats not very nice calling hondas rice crap.  thats not very nice saying  import piece of shit modded civics.  its not polite saying i should stick my head up my hondas ass. its not polite to call me a clown, an idiot and dumb. after saying all this you have the balls to say you are a decent person?  im the bad person?  very odd.
nowhere did i bash domestics.  nowhere did i bash fieros.  i did say that the guy that built a 14 second 2.2 civic screwed up.  i have been building civics for  the last three years.  i have never heard of a 14 second 2.2 civic. unless it had the stated problems with the swap.  it did offend me that i was called a lier that my swap did 12's bone stock.  11's on spray.  i streetraced for two years and lost only a couple times to drag cars.

if anything i bashed honda.  like i said spending 30 000 on a civic is retarded.  personally i would rather a corvette for that money.  i dont like superchargers on civcis cause i use to spank them hard.  evin with pullys and spray they couldnt beat my stock h22a swap.  so i know its a bad mod.  turbo is the way to go on these moters.

now acusing me of being a ricer look at my civic on my webshots sight.  my civic looks BONE STOCK!!!  i evin took off the si wing on the back.  im 33 years old.  the car was built for speed.  shitty exhaust?  i used three inch pipe with a mustang flowmaster muffler painted black.  i needed free flow for the 100 shot of spray  plus it pumps alot of air at 8500 rpm.  how can i be a ricer if im running 13 inch rims?  they happen to be cx 10 pound rims thats why.  where are all these ground effects and wings your talking about?  
i give true sports cars a bad name?  how is that?  my other black h22a civic  had full 2001 jdm civic type r suspension and brakes.  full type r subframe and steering rack.  bilstien shocks with eiback coils.   front and rear type r sway bars.  carbon fibre hood and 9 pound gell filled battery. 13 pound 15x7 jdm rims with falcon azien1 track tires. factory worm gear lsd and 200hp with 8500rpm redline.    this car gives sports cars a bad name?     why is that?  not one wing or ground effect.  evin the muffler on it is  a mustang flowmaster painted black.  i do not think i deserved to be shit on like you did to me.


"BTW: a 3800SC (WITHOUT NOS!!) Breaks into the 11's"

this is great news i didnt know this.  now i know that when i put my 3800sc engine in my fiero i will be doing 11's .  i am glad someone told me this.  putting a 260 hp engine in a 2700 pound car and do 11's  thats amazing.

now about jdm honda engines.  they usually have higer compression than the us moters.  the reson is their gas is around 100 octane.  they dont have to worry about detonation.
10.2 in us and 10.4 in japan.  ecu is diff as well.   the lsd worm gear transmissions never made it to north america in the14 year run they where available.  why i have no idea.  only lsd in north america is available in the acura integra type r.   so ya i guess north america gets the junky grocery getters.  this is why you always get a jdm engine over us.


your right maybe it was wrong to call him stupid.  i was just offended cause i was basically called a lier.  if sorry if i offended someone.

so please look at my webshots and see  one of the civics i sold.  you will not see any of these things that i have been acused of.   i explained that i sold all my civics and am now sticking to pontiac.  i admit i got offended by the way people responded to my posts.
maybe you should reread your posts and think  about  the way you treated me.  

i have explained many times i love my fiero and  got rid of my hondas.  i  think this shows where my loyalty is.

[JAYGT]

oh by the way , not that it matters,  i hate ricers as well.  the hole time i was beating up on vipers, ferraris and corvettes i was getting shit on cause i drove a civic.  there would be around 500 cars watching me race and most of them where riced out civics.  so ya it pissed me off too.  toronto is supposed to be the streetracing capital of the world.    also seams to be the rice capital of the world too.  oh well.

[FieroDough]

Jay, you are going abouts this all wrong. I have nothing against you but I need proof to warrant what you said. Like I mentioned beffore, my inlaws are all pro-honda. So i hear it all and alot of it is exagerated. And to me what you said your car can do seems exagerated. I don't say your car is slow or a peice of crap, to the contrary, you swaped an engine and abviously did some reasearch. That it very good. But even if i came up here and said I droped a bone stock 3.8 and claim to be running 10's everyone here would slap a BS sticker on my post until I can back it up.

Just like a grocery store, they don't call you a liear when you say you have the money in the back, but they won't take an IOU, they want the signed check baby!

I need you to keep one thing in mind here. As you will read the posts, you will find that the people on here are friggen geniuses and can help you with alot from engine swaps to fully custom made parts from raw material. Our cars don't have a very big aftermarket like the Civic does, so most of are mods are home grown. So don't burn anyone here, they may save your ass some day.

Now lets tone down the Honda talk because we have to admit we don't like it here, stay focused on the Fiero and lets get you into the 11's if you want to.

Cheers!
Eric

[JAYGT]

your right i should of kept my mouth shut. i am now finnished with hondas,  been there done that.  your right about proof.  sick of guys talkin smack.  raced alot of guys like that.  if you know anyone in the streetracing scene in toronto ask them about REDCIVICBLACKHOOD.  everyone  knows who i am.  everyone.
there was a reason why my red car  did 12.9 109 without spray.  it weighed 1950 pounds!  no heater, no interior, no bumper rebars, lexan windows, gutted doors, no radio.  it was a shitty lookin car but man did it go.  i just didnt have the money to modify the engine.  did a 100's of things but all little and cheap.  adds up i guess.

i know both sides of the domestic vs import hate.  sorry for talkin about my past.  i should of known it would piss people off.

actually we are both on the same team or we wouldnt be here

[dguy]

I think most people are missing the point.

Especially those who just about turned this thread in to a "prove your Honda stats" war.    Gotta love topic drift.

Would you still drive your car if it looked like it came from the junkyard but was smoking fast?

If my intent for the car was to have a sleeper, yes.

The question is a catch 22.  Most people can't answer it truthfully because they don't know the answer.

<snip>

Don almost answered the question, but then went back to a very Canadian, neutral response.

I beg to differ.  I like to think that I answered your question rather thoroughly, and honestly.  It wasn't by any means a concise answer however.  The Reader's Digest version would have read "It depends upon my perceived purpose of the vehicle."

[aaron88]

Let’s take a look at what is going on here.  It’s called misconception and generalization.  Dangerous a best.

What is it that pisses people off.  I’ll tell you one thing for sure.  It’s calling people a liar, or telling someone something that is hard to believe, and peddling it as the gospel.  No one likes to be called stupid.  How is anyone to know everything?  It must be expected that people will be sceptical until they see the actual results first hand.

All too often people have friends or relatives, or neighbours that say the have car ‘A’ that’s the fastest thing on the road, when you know he’s full of shit.  This makes us sceptical, it makes us not trust other people.

So if you have a car that goes really fast with little to no modification, or with monster modification, it’s not a good idea to be telling other people, if they can’t get the same results that they must be stupid.  There are too many factors involved to be generalizing or calling names.  Instead here is what you should do.  You say in response, “Really, that’s strange” or “I find that hard to believe”, “I’ve had such good results with car ‘A’ or car ‘B’, and look here, this is my proof”.  I mean, don’t quote me, but I’m sure you get the idea.  The basic idea is to treat everything as if you are in a court room.  Hearsay is inadmissible, and always proof is required to back up everything you say or infer.  Honestly it’s up to you what you do, but why fight?

Ricers is an name given to a general group of people that have a certain type of car, but the name or generality of that group can’t depict any particular person in that group per say.  It’s like saying, one in every ‘x’ number of people have herpes, there are ‘x-1’ people here, then person ‘A’ arrives and therefore must have herpes.  Give me a brake.

Moreover, I have a hard time believing that a stock 3800 SC in a Fiero runs 11’s.  High 12’s I would believe outright because I’ve done the math, but it’s hard for me to just go with that 11’s figure.  But am I going to call BS on it?  No, and here’s why, I’ve done the math but I haven’t seen actual results from a car that I know to be stock.  So until I see the results first hand I’m going to assume that the information is accurate.  But here is the kicker, because I don’t know it to be accurate from first hand experience I’m not going to tell people that a 3800sc will run in the 11’s stock.  Instead what I tell them is that, I’ve been assuming that the 3800sc will run in the high 12’s but that I’m told it should be able to run into the 11’s, however that’s unconfirmed.

As far is the 4.9 running spray and sill only posting respectable results go.  It is generally known that a Cadillac 4.9 (any way you slice it), is going to hard to get up to competitive speeds.  It’s basically a cheep starting point for a swap.  It sound cool and is really nice as a daily driver.  Some people have there 4.9’s running really fast but they also did a lot of work on it.  In my opinion (see how I’m saving my ass here, by saying it’s my opinion) it’s not a performance swap.

I’m afraid that what I’m trying to say is getting lost in the translation, but basically if one doesn’t generalize groups or call names.  Then he or she is going to get along fine with everyone.

And what’s with hijacking my thread anyway?

Aaron

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