clutch question

[JP_86_2M4]

good evening,

As some of you know, I had problems at the end of last year with my clutch and had to get it replaced.  I recently had problems again but this time it was a master and slave cylinder problem.  The garage changed the 2 cylinders and bled the system properly, but after a day of rest in the garage, the car started to act up again.  I was driving it today and it goes from "almost impossible to shift" state, to a "brand new car" kindda shift while I was driving it for around 40min or so.  It seems to be very hard to shift when it is stopped, but not too bad when going 2km/h or more.  Could it be something like a cable adjustment or is there still air in the system, or anything else?   The car is an 86 2M4 5spd.

thanks,
JP

[Rob]

Try bleeding it some more.. could be air still in the system...
for proper bleeding :  

http://www.v8archie.com/arch4.htm

A lot of shops thing they know what they are doing... But they dont!

Later;

[JP_86_2M4]

Well I went back to the garage that replaced the master, and they tried bleeding it again and the pressure still drops again.  They assume its the slave cylinder that is defective now but believe the 2 cylinders breaking after only 2 yrs of use is VERY odd.  The tech believes that the clutch forks are too hard (possibly wrong clutch installed) causing the hydraulic system to break because there is just too much effort required to move the forks.  I got the clutch changed september 30th (atleast billed that day) at GM in hull (Chv Williams) and according to the invoice the clutch is new but says it was purchased from ottawa clutch and has a core charge on the invoice making this a reconditioned clutch.  However the warranty is only 3 months or 5000km.  I havent driven 5000km yet with the car since but it has been more then 3 months.  What are my legal actions in this?  What would you guys do if you were in my position?  it doesnt make any sense that I would have to pay another 1000$ to get the clutch changed again because the forks were too hard.  Its been hell ever since I got it changed at the dealeship, nothing but problems!  did I mention that this gm dealership are a bunch of monkeys.....

[Kevin]

  Well Jp I don't know if I will be much help or not, but I have an '86 2m4 that has had some clutch related issues over the years that I've had it. I will throw a few ideas out and see if any work. First of all The word knuckle dragging orangutans can be applied to some dealership mechanics, I watched one try to bring mine in once and cringed as he ground gears, I drove it in needless to say. Do you still have the original stamped steel clutch release lever? They were known to develop cracks around the splined clutch fork shaft, mine did and became undrivable so it was replaced with a cast lever haven't had a problem since. Bleeding the Fiero clutch system is an art, I usually end up doing it a few times before I get it right or it decides to co-operate whichever comes first. Read up and find a method that works best for you. Do you have enough and the right type of fluid in the tranny? Apparently Synchromesh is best, but I was having issues with mine, (got tough to shift) put a tube of Moly Slip in there and it smartened right up.
  Good Luck, Kevin.

[JP_86_2M4]

I'm not sure if they replaced the steal clutch release lever, is that part of a clutch kit/job?  All I know is that they did a pretty shitty job replacing it.  I had to go back 3 times because of engine problems, such as fuel pump relay loose making the batt. drain; vaccuum sys had to be re-installed because of acceleration hesitation and it still does that!!
As for the oil in the tranny I replaced the oil at 97,000km I think and put back the gm oil back in...pretty freakin' expensive oil too...I'm not sure how long it lasts though....maybe its due for a change.  Another thing I noticed today is that when the car was cold with choke on, the car moves forward by itself when in gear and then when it gets hot, it stops moving forward.  On yeah, if the hydraulic sys has no pressure how can I start the car in gear and not making it stall....cause it starts in gear with the pedal pressed down and doesnt stall....it just moves a bit....isnt that kindda of weird?  

[lercs]

my 240 did that all winter, at least the way you describe it.

i asked my mechanic friend and he said i probably need new only, but seeing as you have new oil in your tranny, i dont know what it is from,

and mine only did it in the cold

[FieroDough]

Bleed the clutch. Had same problem with all my manual Fieros. I will do the 2lb line "lock" valve on mine this year. it's a valve toat keeps a constant 2lbs of pressure on the clutch keeping the salve seal pressed in.

The fact that the car creeps when you start it is that this clutch is not promperly engaged yet cot completly released.

I can meetup with you and give you a hand if you like.

Cheers!
Eric

[JP_86_2M4]

thanks for the offer there Eric, but I have more problems on hand now.....I had the car towed from the garage I had the job done to the gm dealership (Williams/Boulevard) and believe it or not the rims/tires got taken out on the weekend.  When I called in this morning they told me the car was on the rotors.
yeah, not too impressed.  damn idiots never pushed the car inside
Im not sure if I should just repair it and just get rid of it now.  I'm at the point of just giving up on the car and buying a matrix.

[FieroDough]

'el dealership problememo... Not your problememo, get them to replace the rims.

Matrix?!?!?

Calm down JP!  No need to be talking nonsence here, things aren't that bad. .

[JP_86_2M4]

Actually it isnt the dealerships problem!!
I know, it doesnt make any sense!!

I just feel like the car just doesnt want to get fixed even after goign to get it fixed at a garage, the problems still come back!
Its depressing when you love your car, and you keep bringing it to the garage to get it fixed.  Even worse, when you bring your car to the dealership hopeing to make things better; when it makes things worse by getting the rims stolen. see what I mean?  I just want to have a working fiero so that I can start loving it again and feel good about driving it, because thats really what its about....
Pontiac driving excitment!

[FieroDough]

Who had the key to your car? The dealership?

Tell them it's their fault they did not bring the property you intrusted upon them to the fenced back yard. Tell them in writing they must replace your rims or you will take them to small claims court and charge court fees and lost wages.

And if they don't comlly, DO IT! small claims court is only $50.00 and you will at least get a settlement.

Now, as for the car, Ask anyone on here, no garage, no dealerships. The club is self sufficient and has more Fiero knowledge then any dealership could ever hope to compare to. It may take more time because we don't have all the fancy tools ect, but people who know what they are doing get the job done.

Did you call the police yet to make a report?
Did the dealership?
Did you ask the dealership for their insurance information? (that get them going) and don't forget to mutter something about better business bureau.

Cheers!
Eric

[GoFast85]

Tell them in writing they must replace your rims or you will take them to small claims court and charge court fees and lost wages.

And if they don't comlly, DO IT! small claims court is only $50.00 and you will at least get a settlement.

Cheers!
Eric

The court is $50 to make a claim and $100 is it actually has to go to court. If you win the looser pays for all costs (but not your time involved in the case.) I have been to small claims and I find that just telling them that you are going to smal claims is usually not enough. I send along a blank small claims and send it and the background letter by registered mail so that they know that you mean business.
There is some confusion to all concerned. The garage will have a sign saying that the car and contents are left at owners risk, Morally they are responsible as it is put under there car. The Judge will deside.      

[FieroDough]

either way, fight it. The publicity alone will be horrible for them. I would never bring my car knowing it may be robbed of vandalized and they wash their hands of it. For all I know, they did it, they have all the tools and means.

fight fight fight!

[JP_86_2M4]

I did get a police report done.  The cop was shocked to see that the 4 wheels were infact missing.  I havent seen any signs, but I didnt really check, so if there isnt any I find it more then acceptable for them to pay for my deductable.  My insurance inspector is trying to locate some replacement wheels.  Does anyone know a place where they would sell Mille Miglia wheels; my wheel model is the M11-2.  The tires were AVS-ES100 from Yokohama but that will prob be much easier to find.  I have attached a picture to give you an idea of the model type.  thanks for any help I can get, it would be much appreciated.

[JP_86_2M4]

thats weird, the picture never got attached....second try