Axle Support Bearings

[dguy]

Does anyone think that the purported benefits of replacing standard axle seals with support bearings is worth it in the mid term?

Kitten's car is having bladder control problems.  The choice is to either spend $20 on a pair of OEM-type seals, or spend ~$120 on a pair of seal & bearing assemblies which will likely not see anything close to another 50,000km before getting replaced with something... different.

The total bill is not the problem, so please don't answer with "seals" just because of the cost difference.  I'm more interested in the ultimate value, and doing it right the first time.

I'm on the fence--please feel free to shove me in one direction or the other.   

[fiero308]

Actually Don, you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but..........
I'm not sure what you mean???
Are you talking rears I guess?  And there is a bearing, and a seal (separate part), but I don't know how one could do the job of the other, really..... again.....
I am just too fuzzy on your question here. 

[aaron88]

I was seriously concidering getting those bearing seals but haven't yet.  If you are going to decide to use a symilar transmission with your replacement you refer to and if you can use those bearing seals with the new (or same) transmission, then I'd get them.

They do reduce the amount of play in the axle shaft.

Aaron

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[dguy]

Actually Don, you'll have to excuse my ignorance, but..........
I'm not sure what you mean???
Are you talking rears I guess?  And there is a bearing, and a seal (separate part), but I don't know how one could do the job of the other, really..... again.....

Here's a link to one place which sells the bearings I'm talking about; there are others as well.

[dguy]

If you are going to decide to use a symilar transmission with your replacement you refer to and if you can use those bearing seals with the new (or same) transmission, then I'd get them.

It's very unlikely that Kitten's car will be keeping its current transmission.  When the day comes, she's almost definitely going longitudinal. 

[fiero308]

duh
OK; at the TRANS.  This is pretty new to me; I haven't seen them before; why not ask on PFF to see how many have used them and if anyone has had any trouble?  And over how many miles/what kind of driving?

As a thought - if these fit without any machine work...... do they fit in where the existing (I am assuming) SEAL goes?  Wouldn't that make the bearing a bit smallish?

On the other hand, anything that helps guide/support/seal (especially) something like an axle does seem like a good idea, esp. as Rodney says - "on higher mileage fieros...."
And the price isn't bad at all.  Any idea how long they have been avail?  ie how long they have been tested in road cars?

[cowans]

duh
OK; at the TRANS.  This is pretty new to me; I haven't seen them before; why not ask on PFF to see how many have used them and if anyone has had any trouble?  And over how many miles/what kind of driving?

I have used them in 3 trannys! They are very good, especially when using LONGER axles (wide body)!

As a thought - if these fit without any machine work...... do they fit in where the existing (I am assuming) SEAL goes?  Wouldn't that make the bearing a bit smallish?

The unit is a needle bearing & seal component that will install in the original  tranny orifice. The most important part is the installation. The machined exterior must be 'GOOPED' before pressing in, or tranny oil will leak out(some people of PFF have not read directions and then complained of leaks) The bearing/seal unit requires some experience in pressing in bearings, not just a Big F--King HAMMER! They have an outer serated edge that will make it almost impossible to remove! Seals can be replaced seperately. Also, it is much easier to install with tranny out of the car!

On the other hand, anything that helps guide/support/seal (especially) something like an axle does seem like a good idea, esp. as Rodney says - "on higher mileage fieros...."
And the price isn't bad at all.  Any idea how long they have been avail?  ie how long they have been tested in road cars?

The bearings offer alot of support especially when using longer axles. As Rodney states these are beneficial to "high milage" vehicles, as the tranny axle depends solely on the large orbital gear inside, that tends to float with age! They have been around for 5-6 yrs.
Sandy

[/size]

[dguy]

Well I was going to reply to Graeme, but Sandy stole my words & beat me to the "post" button. 

I don't really have anything more to add--he covered it nicely.  P'raps just a re-iteration that the current transmission in there has about 115k on it now, and at most will see only another 50k before falling victim to a swap.

...oh and the reason why I asked here instead of PFF?    Signal-to-noise ratio.  I don't need to take off my socks to count the number of informative (IMO), regular, gramatically-competent posters in PFF's tech section.  The other 8000+ members however tend to post comments like "get them--they're good" without offering any supporting info, or have such poor keyboarding skills that it takes me half an hour to figure out what they were trying to convey.   

[fiero308]

Well I was going to reply to Graeme, but Sandy stole my words & beat me to the "post" button. 

.........


...oh and the reason why I asked here instead of PFF?    Signal-to-noise ratio.  I don't need to take off my socks to count the number of informative (IMO), regular, gramatically-competent posters in PFF's tech section.  The other 8000+ members however tend to post comments like "get them--they're good" without offering any supporting info, or have such poor keyboarding skills that it takes me half an hour to figure out what they were trying to convey.   

         LOL!!!!  Big time!!

But I know exactly what you mean.  And if you REALLY like loud noises, just ask about brakes and the best upgrades!!!  Wow.  The old saying is sometimes true: (I think it was Confusious?) - "It is the empty drum that makes the most noise"......
One to live by!

By the way - I may have misspelled 'Confusious' but that is just my substandard keyboarding skills and communications inabilities at work.....
Have a GREAT DAY!!!!   

[fiero308]

oh yeah; more seriously; Sandy:
what trans are you or (if plural) have you used them in - what I am wondering is if they are only avail for a certain one or type.
Rodney is good about replying but it sometimes takes a day or three...
gp

[dguy]

what trans are you or (if plural) have you used them in - what I am wondering is if they are only avail for a certain one or type.
Rodney is good about replying but it sometimes takes a day or three...

Popular opinion has it that both The Fiero Store & Rodney D. get those bearings from the same manufacturer:  TeckPak-Fitzall, part number 75125LRB.

The page where they list the bearings states "AUTOMATIC: 125-125C, (3-speed) left & right side, 440-T4, (4-speed), right side only; STICK: SAGINAW-4 speed & 5TM40 - 5 speed, both left & right side, '80-up."

I sent an e-mail off to one of their listed distributors in Mississauga requesting a price quote yesterday; no reply yet.

[cowans]

I have used them in both the muncie 4spd, and in 2 Isuzu 5 spd. When my 1st Isuzu retired (2nd gear) I cut up the tranny cases to transplant the bearing/seals for the new Isuzu....(heh, I'm cheep!)!
Sandy

[dguy]

Interesting thread on PFF at the moment about these bearing/seal assemblies.

click me

They may present lubrication and/or clearance problems in some cases.   

Sandy, have you ever had the axles out since installing the bearings?

[cowans]

Yes I have had them out, no wear problems! I'm guessing the guy installed them wrong. If I remember right there is a 1/8" hole that ports oil to the needle bearing. The instruction specifically point out to allign this up before pressing them in. Once pressed in, their there to stay!
Sandy

[aaron88]

The instruction specifically point out to allign this up before pressing them in. Once pressed in, their there to stay!
Sandy

I can see a lot of people geting that wrong.  And if they did then it's only a matter of time before they fail.  No brainer I think.


Aaron

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