fiero308 Buildup thread (LOTS OF PIX!!!! ; ))

[fiero308]

OK, I'm in the Christmas spirit....! Want Graeme & all to re-engineer! HEHEH! Have some pics of my new suspension and 'say what'.... Power Steering with coilovers, extended rack, larger brakes, etc... OHHH my GOD....!
I don't know how to post pics here... I'm not sure if I'm hitting a BLANK or what???
tell me and I'll share!....HOHOHO!
Sandy
[/quote

ok
THIS is what I saw; I just conveniently made up the 12" version.  The fiero bible according to St. Brakes 
so are the 10 1/4 inch ones the ones you are upgrading to now or did you already have them?  Or are you upgrading THEM.....
to match your speed potential.  And what-all did you do to the motor, anyway?  He said stalling because it was so #^%#$# cold in the garage this wknd that I didn't get much done!! Grrrrr

[cowans]

BRRR! Ok, well I'm quite sure you're not in the garage today... tooo frigging COLD(-29C)! I guess my 1st statement led you to believe I was upgrading my brakes, my bad! The brakes(10 1/4) are what CK3 supplied me ...(I have a complete new spare set of rotors & calipers as I had to change out my rears to conform to inspection standard! They stop the car well enough, but not as well as some 4 piston variety! As far as the engine, it's a rebuilt SBC 350, mildly tuned, bit of a cam, although I did not want a car like this coughing and sputtering at the lights! Hey, it's fast enough, & I really don't care to win races!
Sandy

[fiero308]

BRRR! Ok, well I'm quite sure you're not in the garage today... tooo frigging COLD(-29C)! I guess my 1st statement led you to believe I was upgrading my brakes, my bad! The brakes(10 1/4) are what CK3 supplied me ...
Sandy

when the radio went off this AM they announced -30 and -46 with wind chill!! yuch.
So...........
what is that on the FRANKENstein scale for our .... warmer..  (jealousy) friends south of the border?  (divide by 32 and add 9......no.  add 32 and divide......no...... subtract 5, divide by.......no
OK, get the calculator.
-22F without wind chill and -50.8F WITH wind chill.  Isn't -50 where the eyeballs are supposed to freeze? 
 
no licking flag poles today, folks!!

[fiero308]

well, the control arms are NOT ready yet but there is still other stuff to do.  Between the cold and my gimpy back I haven't been able to get that much done recently so I am going to blame it on the control arms!  LOL.
Part of getting ready for the new front control arms is a few measurements and calcs;
I am using new coil overs and springs that have VERY limited travel so I have to make sure that my shock/spring settings are at EXACTly the right length for ride height.  I want to have 1/3 of the travel for extension (bounce or jounce, whichever you prefer) and 2/3 for compression.  The total shock travel is only 2.5", so setting proper ride height is fairly critical; I need to have the suspension exactly 'so' when the shock is at that height; or in other words, the mounting brackets need to be attached to permit that extension. 
It being a gas shock, it will extend by itself, and at any rate, it will move, so I made up a 'jig' using a turnbuckle that I can set at the proper shock length for normal ride  height and connect my front wheel ass'y to determine where best to attach the shock mounting tabs.  Handy.  See first pic.  The shock is shown at full extension; the turnbuckle has to be adjusted yet, but it will work fine.
Weighed the wheel ass'y; or what I have of it LESS the absent control arms.........
(pic 2)
91lbs!!!  amazing how it adds up!  I threw in the ball joints and my loaded caliper etc etc for good measure.  From what I know of the control arms I am allowing 18 lbs for the pair, each side.  at a 50/50 split that is 9 lbs shared by the 'wheel' end.  Total weight carried by the wheel.  That brings my total 'wheel' weight (unsprung weight) to 100 lbs per front corner.
Now assuming a car weight of 2850 lbs and a 55/45 weight distribution rear/front; I should have a 1568/1283# distribution.  That means my front corner weight is .5 x 1283# or 641 lbs each corner.  Subtract the 100 lbs for the wheel and that means the spring must push up with a force of 541 lbs  Since my spring rate is 400 lb/inches I need to compress it by 541/400 or about 1.35" to maintain neutral height.  That of course is the beauty of the coil overs; you just 'crank' the spring to where you want. NOTE that this just supports the weight of the car.....   as it turns out, I will need another .833" of compression to get the spring loading I need for proper extension of the shock to get my 1/3 and 2/3 split.
more to follow; but darn, wish I had those control arms; then I could really get inspired!!

[fiero308]

A bit more; I was told by Axle Automotive that my new custom CV joints - (since LAST yr.... ) are a slide on fit onto the Lumina Z34 axles.
So......
gotta try them.  A quick zip with the cut off wheel and the old CV joint is off and yup!  The new one popped on so nicely that I couldn't stop the little O ring from snapping shut!  GREAT.  I cut one of the inner boots on this axle but planned on replacing it anyway.  IT is quite stiff and 'plasitcky' so it has to go.
The new CV joints are a fiero sized inner and an S10 sized outer piece to accept the larger S10 rear wheel bearing spline, just to match the rest of what I am doing.
This is the new one on its test fit.  The longer Z34 axles look like they are going to be a 'lucky' perfect fit on the wider body of the kit car so that is hopefully going to be a nice bonus!!!

[fiero308]

in other news, I stripped my steering rack; started out using a wire wheel but went to a chemical stripper that was GREAT!!!  And then about 15 min with a lite wire brush and it is pretty clean.  I will polish it up and put a clear coat on it; it had primer over paint over primer but that furniture stripper just went right thru it in front of your eyes.
Speaking of which.........EYE protection.  If it eats thru that, I didn't want a 'closeup' of what else it would do.
Also cut down my inner tie rods by approx 1/2 to 5/8" and they are perfect now for my wider front; removed the steering dampener and the rack is ready to finish up.
a little bit at a time I guess.  Will have a pic later but didn't really get one of the yuchy paint that was plastered all over it for a before pic.

[dguy]

as it turns out, I will need another .833" of compression to get the spring loading I need for proper extension of the shock to get my 1/3 and 2/3 split.

How did you determine that an additional 0.833" was what you needed?  Is it as simple as 1/3 the length of the shock piston, or... 

[fiero308]

aha!
Don's sharp eye has caught me trying to slip one by right away.     you're right; the number DID seem like a lot to me but I was on the run so didn't have the moment to check it.   
On the basis that the shock assy has essentially NO load on it when it is initially assembled, (about right) the car's static weight loading will compress the spring  down by 1.35" from its fully extended length.  However, I want it to be at 0.825" from its full extension.  At that setting, the control arms should be horizontal.   (Or equal angles from the horizontal, to be more precise).  That is my goal.   So this is where I have to mount the shock mounting tabs on the lower control arm (top ones are already fixed).
So the amount of additional spring loading that I have to crank in will be 1.35-.825 = 0.525" of additional spring loading.  Not the .825 that I mentioned earlier.  You're more than just a pretty face, aren't you? 
A couple of points:
this will be finally adjusted on the car anyway.......the coil overs lend themselves to this tuning very well of course;
the 400 lb/in springs are a starting point only for now till I see how things work;
the above is going to be subject to the fact that the spring/shock is NOT vertical; it is at an angle and thus it will need more loading as only the vertical component of the spring load is the 'useful' part here.......
The final shock/spring mounting point on the control arms - ie, will they be exactly 1/2 way along the bottom?; 55% to the outside end?; 48%? etc etc will also affect the way they will work as the mechanical advantage (disadvantage?) or if you prefer, similar triangles comes in to play for the loading on them.
But again, coil overs are great for tuning in this situation!.

And I eliminated a LOT of steel from the stocksetup.  I wish I had some stock arms to weigh; the huge stock springs, the bigger stock shocks, the enormous spring perch on the lower control arm; all that is gone!  Granted my brake assy and probably wheel/tire combo is bigger and maybe heavier but I am guessing I am not a lot worse off than the stock setup.

[fiero308]

well; an update; not a lot has happened the last couple of wks; Christmas and hurting my back and cold weather have conspired against me a bit there.  At least that is my excuse.   
I haven't been doing NOTHing, but mostly 'paper' and computer-related research; necessary stuff but not physical progress.....
I have been doing a lot of research re: electrical aspects of my swap; it is the REAL test for me; the ;mech part isn't that much of a challenge in my books.  And a major source of elect info; www.dohcfiero, has disappeared from the internet without a trace!?!?!

I have also been doing a bit of planning and thinking about the engine/trans pkg I have; I may get a spare 284 trans just to take apart to see what is inside and try to find another trans that MIGHT share some parts.......  we'll see.  That is work that I will do when the car is out of my garage and down at the welding shop.

I am a bit disappointed with the welding shop not having my longer front control arms finished for TEST fitting after making a number of promises about working on them.  And not doing that, altho there has been a bit of progress there.  But I can't really blame them too much; I DO have other stuff to do and so they are not a show-stopper.  But it is fun to get new things at Christmas!!
So in the next couple of days while it isn't too cold I will be working at the front end to get as ready as I can be for when the control arms ARE done; hopefully a wk or two.
So I hope to get some real constructive work done and will put it up here asap. 
So in the meantime, a Happy New Year to everyone and I hope this is the year that the 308 rolls again!!! 

[fiero308]

well as I said the lack of control arms is not holding me up really........
so
today was a nice mild day; I put the heater and radio on and out I went.  Goal for the day is to get the LEFT front ready for the new control arms when they arrive.
The right front is already done........ as far as I can anyway.......have to wait till the control arms arrive to final fitting of the shock assy.

first pic: the LF spring perch (upper of course)....this has got to go to make room for the new coil over.
Second pic: the GARYmachine.

A good hour or two later and it is going to be ready.  This is just sort of slow dirty work; I actually HATE grinding........

[fiero308]

So finally I get the area ready as I can for final fitting once the new control arms arrive........ I can't really do any more till I get them as the shock/spring mounting is pretty critical and is entirely dependent on the control arm.

So the first pic is the upper spring perch modified (as in deleted) and carved up to allow for a new mount for the coilover .......

And the upper bracket has to be cut into as well; note that the L and the R are different if for any reason you ever have to get ONE......... check them out.

[fiero308]

did a bit more; started looking at the electrical as it IS a major hangup with this particular swap......... so I finally see that there are TWO 'thru the firewall' connectors to the ECM....... hmmmm nobody mentioned this before....
ONE goes right PAST the ECM and up toward the front of the car.  Guages?  Fans?  Switches?  back to the battery? etc etc etc?  I dunno.  But I guess I better find out.

First pic is the from the passenger door; shows the drivers side (rt) thru-the-wall connector and the left side (passenger) seems to go right up toward the front of the car.  Have to trace that out.

Also removed the master cylinder to prepare for installing the new GM truck M/C that has a bigger volume to handle the bigger calipers that I am putting on.  All that has to be swapped is the reservoir; the m/c body is identical; interesting eh?

I will be replacing all the brake lines too.  They are hanging loose and should be pretty easy to do.

[aaron88]

Using vertical components isn’t going to work in this case.  You must use moments about your rotational point and solve for the resultant at the spring member (calculating angles accurately).

Use your spring pre-compression as your adjustment after the fact and just set up your ride height where you want it in theory.  However if you have an accurate loading weight then you should be able to accurately calculate the pre-compression thought your moment/resultant calculation, but you will definitely have to adjust it once it is all set up anyway (because it’s too hard to know what the vehicles suspended mass will be).

You don’t want your spring and damper necessarily vertical you want them in line with the direction of their compressional movement.

I’m sure you already know all of this but it was hard to tell what method you were using from reading your post.


Aaron

.

[fiero308]

well all the arithmetic so far is quite general because I dont' know my car's weight with the fiberglass kit body; I am guessing it may be heavier; but I might save a bit of weight with my mods.  Then again the 3.4 is going to be a bit heavier than the stock 2.8.  Then again I may forgo the front spare tire and will do a front mount battery. 
And more importantly, I won't know the FINAL angle the shocks (and thus springs) will be at until I actually get the control arms and figure out the shock's bottom mounting points.  And the springs I 'happen to have' ....  are perhaps too high rated ... but maybe not......  I guessed at a spring rate just to get SOME kind of spring for starters.  So by no means is ANY of this final......

So again, it will depend on exactly WHERE the lower shock mount goes on the lower control arm and thus the angle and my ratio of wheel travel to shock travel.

So the numbers are a starting point only and meant to raise some of the issues that have to be considered.

My camera has crapped out on me again; I have a whole bunch of pix that I was going to download showing the final version (whew!) of the rear suspension but ... maybe tomorrow.

Oh yeah, had to watch the hockey today......
supposed to be a high of zero on monday so if things are not too busy I will do a bit more....  Still lots to do.
 

[aaron88]

You have all the control right now.  If you think the spring rate is going to be too heavy (I don’t think so) you can just move the mounting point in a bit.  If you think it’s going to be too light you can move the mounting point out a little.

Aaron

.