fiero308 Buildup thread (LOTS OF PIX!!!! ; ))

[fiero308]

well it only took about 30 seconds to remove the lower rear control arm, as it turns out.
Method:
take hopeful (of driving the car someday) son and explain/show what has to be done. (Don't make any promises  )
Go away and do other things. 
Takes about 30 seconds!!

THEN........ get all waylaid and distracted by miscellaneous issues.
The sandblaster - the starwars casting reject in pic No 2.......... didn't work. Get it working. You'll see my very humourous but working sandblaster; (have a good laugh; everyone else is!!) looking very much like an old dishwasher cabinet, with a 5 gal pressure sandblaster below it (dark blue 'can') and a gray intermediate pail (sand interceptor) and a large shopvac to help clear the air. It works. Only problem is finding valves that will stand up to the abrasive sand!!!!!!!!!
(look at next pic/post

[fiero308]

here is the stuff that REALLY slows down a job like this:
Thinking (wrongly) that only opening the little ball valve (on the sandblaster nozzle) partway would reduce the amount of air, sand and thus wear, I had THIS experience. Thinking about it, it makes sense. The air gets 'redirected' within the valve because it has to flow 'around' the angle you create...... so it hits the sides of the (nice, soft brass!) valve on the way. Final: sand : 1, brass, NO SCORE.
man, did it ever blow thru.

and the other time burners; had to go get stuff to make up an extension cord for my welder so it would reach the left rear corner comfortably.  I decided to make it 5m long.

But more time......necessary but .......gone, all the same.

[fiero308]

Now to get the bushings out of the control arm. NOT for the weak-of-attention-span types:

Soak bushing in lacquer thinner for about 5 min; then very carefully MOVE THE FLAMMABLE STUFF AWAY!!!!!!!

set up a backstop for the little flaming rocket that will come out (the 'wide' side) of the control arm and then apply torch.  About 1 minute and you have it.

LET COOL before sticking the other side in lacquer thinner to repeat.

[fiero308]

and this is how it turns out; nice and clean sleeve; just clean it up with a bit of varsol and then run a wire brush thru it and it is like new.

NOTE: in the previous pic you see the control arm with one bushing off to one side. This time around the bushing didn't go too far.
I HAVE had them take off (like I said) about ........15 feet or maybe more........in a moment of inattention, while I was turning the LCA to apply heat all around. Went into the garage and hit something where it finally stopped.  Remember this is a little ball of flaming, liquidy rubber. Nasty, sticky, messy and oh yeah, BURNing.

So make sure you AIM it at something that doesn't matter and doesn't BURN!!! Otherwise this method is GREAT!!!!

[fiero308]

got the LR lower control arm cleaned up and took out the ball joint; it will have to be replaced but i am going to use it for now to get things rolling. The rivets are really IN there....... BFH and a substantial punch (after grinding the heads off) and a bit of persuasion.

Started cutting out the frame and misc metal that is 'in the way' at the LR corner. MAN that stock metal does NOT impress me; it is very thin, it obviously is only spot welded (you can pull apart 'strips' of it at a time) and it BENDS really easily.

So what I am putting in is going to be a lot more substantial.

[fiero308]

TECH TIP
safety tip, actually; since i am going to be grinding and welding in the engine bay I heavily wrapped the fuel lines in aluminum foil so that it will repel sparks; at least enough.

I decided it would be smart, since I am trying to 'mirror image' the right side to the left side, to have a good centreline nearby that I could reference.
I found that by fluke a piece of punched angle steel I had just happened to have two holes perfectly aligned with the rear (vertical up) cradle bolts. I am going to assume that those bolts are reasonably symmetrical across a centerline.

That made it easy to find a rear reference; then I just tied a string to the centre hole, verified to each bolt that it WAS in fact the center (it was) and then can use that to measure to the RR and then compare easily to the LR.

I will do the same with the front (horizontal) cradle bolts. That will take a bit more doing.

[fiero308]

try aGAIN...... for some reason I can't post anymore to this thread.
Got the frame cut away; a messy job as you have to turn the Garygrinder in all different directions to get at the stuff you want and you end up with sparks in your face 1/2 the time.

But it is ready for the new piece to be fab'd and installed (THAT is the big job here,not the demo)

Very carefully notched and bent the new piece to match the existing section already installed on the passenger side. Shown here drawn in with a short pipe clamp so I can tack weld it at the exact right angle. Finished it up solid and now I can start cutting pieces out and welding pieces in to make the upper control arm 'pockets' (like the other one).

(now we try to 'post' again.......)

[fiero308]

HEY
it worked. that was the 4th try; I thought I would have to abandon it - maybe too many pix of something.

Anyway; for the curious, here is a comparison of the stock and the new 'frame' section.  I keep saying it because it has made quite an impression on me how 'soft' the stock steel is. Get a strip of it about an inch wide and you can bend it in your fingers! Try that with a piece of bar stock!

But I AM up against a material shortage I found out last nite; I need a bit more heavier plate and don't have enough to make the parts I need; I doubt I can get it this wknd ....BUT there is still lots to do!

The bottom pic is the new frame member "BEFORE" pic; it is all sewn up but about to be butchered too.

[fiero308]

well Sunday was pretty much a waste; I didn't/don't have the right steel I needed; 3/16" plate; thought I did so........ went to Princess; bought a 6' piece of channel and cut off the parts that I don't need.  Sort of like making a stone sculpture of an elephant.
Get a big chunk of stone and simply chisel away all the parts that don't look like elephant.......

OK, I am in a funny mood; I HATE grinding with a passion and that seems to be all I have been doing for the last 2 days or so.

Anyway
on to the work:
This first pic is the right rear susp setup; this is what i have to mirror image.
 (edit; it is 18 parts to be made up) 18 pieces to be fabricated, cut, ground, finished, 24 holes to be located and drilled, then everything assembled and welded.  That EXCLUDES work on the frame piece; this is just what bolts on..........

And what i have got done so far: rubber (poly, actually) bushings cut to length; main connector made up and 99% finished (that was the biggest single job!) New control arm mounting brackets made up exc for the final 4 holes each; locator template made up (not shown, oh yeah) rod ends and connector bolts lined up to be installed.

I am just now at the point that I can start laying out the frame piece mods.  Due to all the running around in circles yesterday (didn' have this, couldn't find that) I know I won't make my deadline today of having it rollable but I am not going to hurry this aspect. It will not be too far off.  I'm getting bugged by people who want me to WORK.... as in real work. So I can't keep ignoring them.

[fiero308]

tuesday morning update. NOT the news....... but things are getting closer. I was very optimistic in my hopes for having the frame done by now; but there are always a few distractions when 3 kids and a business is involved 

I did get the new frame piece well along; pockets are cut in; one of them is now reinforced with 1/4" backing plate and drilled; I have to locate the other and do the same.

THEN....... then.....
the tedious, time-consuming job of making this new frame piece fit the existing frame as tightly as possible then weld in place. That is just try then grind, try then grind, over and over as much as it takes.

On the upside, I am getting happier about my welding all around. I took the Lincoln Welding course about 3 lifetimes ago but STICK and MIG are very different, for anyone thinking of starting or doind a self teach.

Anyway
the frame piece so far:

[fiero308]

well decided to put in a couple of hours. Turned into 3...... I GOTTA start getting some work done

Got the frame member insert finished as far as prep goes; pockets are cut; I have welded in 'reverse' pockets; ie it is reinforced everywhere I have cut a piece away; on the inside of the pockets.  I can't finish drilling two of the holes out full size yet as I need to use them as guides once I get the piece installed into the car itself; but it is no big deal.

I have added a 1/4" backing plate to the existing rectangular member for additional strength (same as already done on the right side); it extends down below the bottom of the tube as you can see.

The upper control arm mounting brackets are done; drilled; holes all drilled out; nuts welded in place. 

Despite my best efforts to avoid getting any welding splatter into any threads, I still got some contamination in a few when welding the nuts to the mounting brackets. I don't have a tap of every size on hand so I made up a thread chaser from one of the bolts I am using. That with a bit of oil and it worked great!!But this is the type of little time burner that uses up the hours, too........

The fiddling with this frame insert piece has taken a fair bit of time; I don't remember it taking so long with the other side (already done WHEW) but I am sure it took more as I was also figuring stuff out for the first time.

Right now my goal is to have the new piece inserted by the time I get the wheels and front hub assy's back from the machine shop; - maybe later this week. That will put the car within reach of having all 4 wheels on the ground again!! 

[fiero308]

well no pix today; or until that frame "cassette" is in place. Man o man I HATE grinding!!!!!!!

but that is all I can do now; the fit must be very tight or at least as tight as possible so it is grind a bit, test fit, grind a bit, test fit....... and so on.

So hopefully it will happen in the next few days; I am getting a bit busy with paying work and that is a distraction.

so just written updates till I can show an installed piece.

BUT I am curious; there are a few people watching and I am wondering what, if anything, they are getting out of it; sometimes you think you are talking to yourself.....  so don't be afraid to say something or let me (us?) know what you might be working on.

thx
GP

[nuttall_chris]

I am new to this forum but have read your build thread and look forward to seeing your updates.  I an in the very early stages of building a custom mid engined car using a number of fiero parts.  I will be fabricating the chassis, suspension and body from scratch.    Your rear suspension setup looks interesting, are you going to use the stock lower control arm or are you making your own?  Post lots of pics, your build is going great. 

FYI for another great build site see www.grabercars.com  not fiero related but lots of great build info.

Keep the updates coming.

[fiero308]

hey Chris thanks for responding; sometimes you feel like you're talking to the bathroom mirror..... so it is good to know that someone is learning from my mistakes.
Just as a note to you; I am sure you have a pretty good knowledge of what you are getting into; I have (sometimes) the same 'dream'....... I really love the idea of a longitudinal V8 in a GT40 body. Complete custom frame and engine and suspension and all that. But this project is curing me, ....... at least for now!

To set the stage here:
I am probably about as well set up as most private types could be; fairly good experience with cars (I have owned - and I guess worked on - over 45); I have a good powerful MIG welder, metal bandsaw; big drill press (what a great machine that is!) large 60gal/7.5hp air compressor; bench grinder; good solid steel work bench; all the hand tools etc etc etc and so on.........
and this is STILL quite a challenge. It is a LOT of time. Maybe I just work slow, I dunno, (don't think so) but you have to be prepared to wait and be unbelievably patient. Not trying to discourage anyone, just to help them know beforehand what this kind of thing would take.

But in about another wk or 2 I am hoping to have wheels on it and be starting my engine/trans install (unless I get busy with work) so that is my incentive. It is finally getting closer!

Rear susp: yes the lower control arm works perfectly (just by fluke, but I'll take it!) with the wheel/brake setup I am using.  It prob isn't clear (forget what pix I have put up) but the new upper control arm HAS to connect at the frame level. No way around it; I did NOT want to do that but it is the only way that would work so... that is what I have done.

Yup; I'll post pix as before; and mistakes and oversights and so on; this is supposed to HELP someone so ....... I hope it does!
gp

[dguy]

sometimes you feel like you're talking to the bathroom mirror.....

Quietly enjoying every post here; look forward to them actually, even when I'm checking in from home via dial-up.   

A recent & unexpected shift in the availability of a house we've been looking at for a while has put most of our projects which involve me making a mess in the garage on hold for at least a year.     So for now, I'm living vicariously through others' build threads.