how to remove the vertical cradle bushings?

[fiero308]

after looking and looking I can't seem to find anything on this. Seems very strange but ....... that is what I have got.
I need to know if there is some trick to getting the REAR, VERTICAL rubber bushings out of the cradle..... the front horizontal ones are easy enough; no problem.

Can anyone help out here; a link or a tip?
thanks in advance
gp

[dguy]

Been there, had the same question myself Graeme.    Didn't think to take photos when I took them apart though.   

The bushing is in two pieces, with a metal hat between it & the frame rail.  The parts which protrude above the cradle & contact the frame simply pry off.

Once you have that off, you should see the lip of a crusty metal sleeve protruding slightly above the flat of the cradle.  Drive that sleeve down with your favorite bashing implement, and the bottom half of the bushing should fall out.


edit:  here's a thread on PFF with a photo of the sleeve I'm talking about.

[fiero308]

thx Don
but still not 100% sure again before I do something stupid I mean irreversible......
this is the top plate I am not sure about; it appears to be welded in place; do I have to remove this or not?

[2ML67]

As Don said and leave that plate attached, if going polly according to most you also need to reuse the upper steel plate that comes off with the mount. Just did mine over to polly. Unfortunately had a slight accident when my factory jack point let go and dropped my car with no rear wheels on it on the floor. Good news bent leg on my engine puller has been rapaired and reinforced. Bad news is my leg is still pretty sore as I was under car when it all happened. Now my car is in need of some slight repair and reinforcing of its own. Dan

[fiero308]

well that's not good news.
About your leg or about the steel plates.
I seem to be able to put my hands on exactly ONE steel plate. A lower one.

So I guess I now need THREE steel plates...... two uppers and a lower.
bummer.
Well I'll try to source them somewhere and it won't exactly stop the show.

Thanks for the response guys!
g

[dguy]

Unfortunately had a slight accident when my factory jack point let go and dropped my car with no rear wheels on it on the floor.

Yeow!  Glad to hear you're mostly all right, Dan.

I seem to be able to put my hands on exactly ONE steel plate. A lower one.

So I guess I now need THREE steel plates...... two uppers and a lower.
bummer.

I might be able to oblige.  I'll have a dig through the pile o' parts this weekend and see if there's anything useful in there.  If you don't hear from me about it by Monday, give me a reminder poke.

[fiero308]

hey THANKS for looking Don; I would make some up except for that funny oblong hole and mating part that is incorp'd into it; for the life of me I can't figure out why they would put that in there........ it doesn't MOVE.........
but hey!!!
I know!
It is so that the thing will SWING up (ie in an ARC) into place when pivoting on the front bolts! That must be it.
OK; everyone can stop thinking about it now 

I would really appreciate it if you could find anything; a bottom is more important than the top; I can make up top plates but the bottom is the difficult one.

thx again
G

[GoFast88]

bent leg on my engine puller

I was down there last week and that square tubing was bent but good. I always try to lay a tire and rim beside me when I am working on the vehicles (no matter how good I figure the vehicle is blocked). One buddy was in the hospital when the jack let loose on ice and in a separate incident other buddy, working on a friends car, wasn't as lucky.

[fiero308]

yup. Exactly right. I have worked with heavy objects in the past; ie in a structural steel place; and things that weigh (even only) 500 lbs and up don't FALL.......
they ACCELERATE downwards.

You have to think in those terms, NOT in terms of normal gravity. Anyone who thinks they will "somehow" react and pull their hand/foot/bodypart out in time is totally and completely fooling themselves. In Dan's case a jack failed which is pretty unusual but it never hurts to have a safety of course.

A lot of us prob work alone so that is even more important. I am going out now to check all my support points to make sure nothing has slipped or become compromised with all my banging and grinding etc.  Good to get a memory jog from time to time; thx Dan!

[2ML67]

I normally use two large wooden blocks along with the jack stands when working on cars but for some reason they are still being used to keep a certain engine off the ground, one that should of been gone a long time ago and is going to be thrown out if not removed very soon.
Car had front tires on the ground, rear end up in the air on jack stands and the engine puller still connected to the engine which was bolted to the cradle and the cradle bolted to the car as well. Was going underneath to tighten the front cradle bolts when the jack stand started going through the frame saw it and got the heck out of there. The engine puller held for a few seconds before toppling over to one side. Only reason my leg was hurt was once again that other engine was in the way and stopped me from getting completely out of the way.
Question how long is a person expected to store a blown engine after the swap is long over and the damn thing is still there. Dan   

[fiero308]

went thru the FRAME......... !!!     something I wouldn't expect to happen; you just instinctively trust the frame.

yeah....... a 20 yr old car that has salt in there.... even from yrs gone by....
good reminder.

[fiero308]

anyway back on topic i guess; I followed the advice of the sages and guess what? they popped right out.
So to share with anyone else who is thinking of doing this; I am putting this info up.

Item 1 is the top plate that is FIXED to the cradle; but not very well as we will see later;
Item 2 is the part that simply pounds down and out the bottom;
Item 3 is the weld that (is supposed to!) fastens the plate to the rest of the cradle.

The next pic is what is left after that old bushing is out.
2 whacks and it was gone. Not so bad.

[fiero308]

now THIS is the top plate that is supposedly FIXED to the rest of the cradle. Obviously needs some attitudinal adjustment. Trying to separate from the rest of the team....

So that will be cleaned up and welded again. Saw someone else who had the same thing, so it prob isn't that rare. Only a few short welds hold the thing in place.

Next pic, altho fuzzy (my camera doesn't seem to like closeups) shows that weld. It has been broken for some time judging by the rust on the weld.  The plate is distinctly separated........ not perfect, I don't think. 

So doing the cradle bushings should give an opportunity to check things out.

and interestingly, I found that the Lumina DID do the same thing...... it rubber mounted:
1.  the cradle; then
2.  the engine/trans; and also
3.  the control arms.
I was curious because I was thinking of the MANY front engine cars that have an engine/trans that is separated from the FRAME only by rubber mounts. Then the control arms/suspension was SEPARATELY mounted and isolated by rubber too.

The point is, the fiero (and others) has a rubber mounted engine cradle that is subject to movement. The engine/trans CAN and does move; and that little bit of inertia when moving would cause SOME movement in the cradle............ which then has the unavoidable effect of MOVING the base points of the control arms.
So handling is affected by all this rubber.
Sure it is good at noise and vibration isolation and the fiero WAS supposed to be a cheap commuter car......... but if you are into handling then all this would have to be looked at.
my 2 cents for today
g

[dguy]

I would really appreciate it if you could find anything; a bottom is more important than the top; I can make up top plates but the bottom is the difficult one.

I found these two fairly quickly--they're basically king-sized shoulder washers which are placed between the bolt head & the lower part of the cradle bushing.  When I hear "bottom plate" this is what I think of...  hopefully it's the same as your definition of "bottom plate".    Still looking for one or more hats with the oval thingy...

[fiero308]

that's great, Don; I am thinking of making a set out of steel (something I think I can do fairly easily....) but not sure. It would be nice to know I have an option.

Thanks; if you find that other one pls LMK
 
gp