adapting to different bolt circle-rear

[fiero308]

following the general approach outlined by Bubbajoe (thx Gary!) I am getting my rear wheels to adapt to the 4 and 3/4" bolt circle (a la camaro, firebird, chev in general) which matches my 12" front camaro rotors.  Unfortunately Bubbajoe didn't put years or models in his website and I haven't got a reply so I am doing the good ole trial and error thing again.
This will eventually end up giving me a much bigger bearing and outer stub axle end, connected to the stock fiero inner axle and a Pontiac 6000 spindle knuckle. The prescribed S10 bearing that I got doesnt fit; I will try a different year or model.  I also found there are TWO 6000's; one with a smaller bolt circle that I assumed wouldn't be big enough.  So right now things are not going together but 'research' continues.  This MIGHT be of interest to anyone doing an engine conversion or upgrade; gives you beefier bearings which I can't help but think is a good thing.
The pic shows the pontiac 6000 bearing assy beside the stock fiero one. Quite a difference!  yeah, the parts are rusty but I am not going to be using this stuff; when i find what works it will be new bearings........

[fiero308]

and here is the bolting plate view.  Note how much bigger it is - you could probably use this to drill for any bolt circle you wanted..........
maybe.
Gonna think about that approach if I can't find parts that fit together.

[fiero308]

the outer stub axle comes off with only a little spring clip.  Pretty easy once you know where to look.  And greasy.........  
this is the outer stub axle; next pic is the other end of it showing the little spring clip.

[fiero308]

this is the other end; the spring clip is almost right in the center; it has to be expanded and then the splines just slide apart.  Simple.

[fiero308]

here is the right rear corner with the parts removed in place; not too difficult except for the tie rod end.......... arghhhhhhhh

You might be able to see the small groove in the outer splines; that is where the spring clip locks in.

[fiero308]

the S10 outer stub axle supposedly will slide right on to those splines and also bolt up to the Pontiac 6000 knuckle. Once I find the bearing that fits...........
more to come as I get the parts.  Hopefully this week.  Work keeps getting in the way!!!!!!!!!!

[FieroBUZZ]

One thing I've noticed about Bubbajoe's site is that everything is just vague enough to get you to contact him for info.  I don't think we should assume that there is an s-10 part that will 'slide' in.  There may be a fair machining job involved.

Going to the bigger Ponti plates and redrilling the pattern may be a good way to keep the ebrake.  Not sure which way the 6000 pulls.

[fiero308]

hey Gary; nice to hear from you.....   how's things?
re: Bubbajoe; I sent him an email (one only, to be fair) and have not heard back so I am going ahead with my investigation.
I got the 6000 spindle/knuckles whatever you want to call it and they are VERY similar to the fiero; just a bigger hole for the bearing, obviously. The tie rod goes on the same place and it uses the same funny ball joint too; so it looks like a bolt in, at least right now.
I looked at his website again and it looks like his bearing 'sort of' fits in the upright; that is, there seems to be a space around part of the bearing assy that I will not want.  It will put a LOT of stress on the remainder of the bearing.
(got a 2.8 I am trying to figure out what to do with....... )

[FieroDough]

ok, I have to say it now... What are you doing? Are you makeing a 5th wheel hitch and towing a motorhome with it? You are beefing up the Fiero like a truck. *lol*

But to each their own.

Cheers!
Eric

[fiero308]

i guess this is a catch up of sorts...........
no ......... I decided not to transform my car into a tractor trailer.......
I am putting bigger, 12" brakes on the front of my car.  This brings in the Camaro 1LE big rotor and the standard 'ole chev 5 on 4-3/4" bolt circle. while I don't actually have to go to that pattern (I could redrill those rotors) I figured that would open up a million possibilities for wheels for me (or anyone).  So I am now exploring what is involved with changing the rear end to a 4-3/4" pattern as well.  Altho the method (swapping in different axle ends) could be used for anyone who is looking for an alternate bolt and/or axle pattern to what they have.
Might be of use and/or interest to anyone who is beefing up their engine etc and wants to do the same to the rest of their drivetrain.........  

[cowans]

Well, Well! another conformed individual. Yes, I have 6000 HD spindles w/outer 6000 axles mated to fiero inner cv's! The shafts are HD units(heat-treated, to handle a V8), w/ additional 4" for my required, added width. 308, if you look at rear discs/calipers for an '86 6000 Heavy Duty, you will find that those parts will fit. In fact they are almost an exact replica of the Fiero rear brakes. (actually not sure, but I think the discs are beefier). Even the E-cables will fit! I had to do this when Transportation Ontario dis-approved my 'Jamar' Ebrake system w/ much larger discs& calipers! Thr Fronts required an spacer mount for my large caliper/disc package. And the bonus... you can chose from 100's of wheel packages!
Sandy

[fiero308]

hi Sandy
thx for the input!!!!! I am TRYING to get to a 5 on 4 3/4" bolt pattern but there are a few bumps in the road.  What bolt pattern are you running if it is a 6000 hub?
I am not clear on the rear discs/calipers issue tho; isn't the 6000 a front wheel drive car?  But it has rear discs and calipers with ebrake?  Is it a single thickness rotor?  I am guessing so - my 92 Z34 Lumina (parts car) has single thickness rear brakes - maybe it is the same setup!!!  I have got a ventilated rear disc setup now that I think I will follow for now - it is basically the Walt Zettner setup; 11.25" Lebaron rotors with 80-85 Cadillac calipers (yes, that have an ebrake)...
But wheels has become an issue.  to get wheels that look good in the wider body I have a VERY limited selection.  I am now looking at getting longer rear control arms to bring the wheel out to a more acceptable location and reduce the offset situation.  Have been calling and emailing about that today in fact.
Any input is very very welcome and thanks!
gp

[cowans]

 The bummer with the rear is that they are a single disc setup. The fronts are double drilled, crosshatched and I now have spares when I removed the rear for ONT Transport
As for lengthening the rear control arms, isn't that going to possibly generate more 'bumpsteer'? Why wouldn't you just mount the original farther out?
Sandy

[fiero308]

hi Sandy
probably two ways to look at it; generally the longer the arms the less is the effect of the bumpsteer due to the longer tie rod too.  But the best way is something like the Held Motorsports rear lower control arms that eliminate the tie rod altogether by connecting that part of the hub to the lower control arm; so it is not affected by the relative movement of the body.  I think it is a VERY good idea.....
But I am interested in what bolt pattern you were able to get or find; if I have to I will go to a different bolt pattern on the front to match something that is more easily found on the back.  I have the HD 6000 hub and spindle assy so it has the bigger hub and a HUGE bearing assembly, so I am quite happy with that.  I guess ultimately I do NOT have to use the 4 3/4" bolt circle, I simply assumed it would be the most popular.  Maybe not anymore.
So more flexibility translates to yet another decision......
oh well.........

[fiero308]

well.........THIS is part of the reason I didn't make it to the mtg; I just got home at 6:30PM (more than a BIT dirty ) and decided to keep going on my investigative parts interchangability mission........
So; after checking out Bubbajoes website where he puts a Pontiac 6000 knuckle on his fiero and uses an S10 axle-end and S10 bearing assy (without listing any years) I have come to the conclusion that the one little word he 'snuck' in there is a significant one.  He says to assemble the bearing assembly into the prepared knuckle .........  
That means the knuckle has to be machined, as the S10 bearing does NOT fit it in stock form. Or at least the brand new one I got wasn't even close...
And looking at it I was concerned that the bearing would not have enough of the 'bearing surface' inside the knuckle. This pic shows the new S10 bearing and just above the bearing place (that the bolts go thru) is the shoulder of the bearing that will actually slide into the knuckle.  It is probably about 3/8" high; doesn't seem like much......
So that is my first concern..............